most British way possible
In which we discuss the philosophy of pre-coaching, the future is previewed, and we start a journey with Bilbo.
Coach coaching things
Season 2 Clarkson Farm review…incoming!! Later…
Grand Tour is OUT!!!
Law and Order Season 1- barely a fax machine
More software fun!
In a weird spot…like Bilbo!
Going to the mountain….to defeat the dragon!
Check out our other episodes: ohbrotherpodcast.com
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A VERY ROUGH TRANSCRIPT OF THE EPISODE
PROVIDED BY OTTER.AI
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
client, weird, handkerchief, gandalf, staff member, l ron, visit, move, person, burglar, read, great, bit, find, hobbit, trolls, software, chapter, story, tolkien
SPEAKERS
Collin, Brandon
00:05
Welcome to Oh, brother, a podcast of three brothers trying to figure it all out with your hosts, Brandon, Colin and Aaron. On this week's show, the most British way possible. Oh, boy. Oh, hooray.
00:22
After an unknowable amount of time we have re gathered to podcast again.
Brandon 00:30
Indeed, we have
00:36
no
00:37
dakini you hear me? Okay. I'm, I'm guessing inside right now because it's plot out on the deck. So it's true. I scurried away from the sun. Good plan. Thanks. try my best
00:58
Do you want to wait for Aaron?
Brandon 01:00
He just said no, because he has to go and do Kochi things. Let's go. Coach Aaron has to go meet the parents
Collin 01:10
tend to whatever coaches do I don't know what coaches do. To be honest that a coach? Yeah, but like outside of coaching. I don't know what they do. So he's not going to
Brandon 01:27
coach now.
01:28
I just about what he's preparing to coach in the future. Ah, pre coaching. free coaching coaching. Got it? That's pretty general. Yep. Pre coach coaching, which is generally the process that coaches go, but it's mostly like,
Brandon 01:42
Yes, I am coach. Hello.
01:47
Yes. The introduction. Introduction of self as coach.
Collin 01:50
Yeah, probably be good. I mean, I guess I don't, I don't know. I don't know these things. Oh, fine, fine, fine.
Brandon 02:04
I like these things to go a bit more organically like to force them. You know, it's awkward that way.
02:10
That's true. Don't
Collin 02:12
put it into place.
Brandon 02:15
I'm a small, small preview for the future. Right. Oh, in addition to
Collin 02:25
continuing to discuss the Hobbit, which is what we're about to do here in a little bit.
Brandon 02:31
I need you to know that I have in fact, just finished season two of Clarkson's farm, so that that didn't happen. is just so you're aware. I watched a couple of them. Like, I downloaded them to my phone. So I watched someone like the plane, right?
Collin 02:53
Oh, yeah. Trip and stuff.
Brandon 02:56
And so I watched a little bit and I finished them when I got back home because I only watched a few. So I have now finished Clarkson's farm season two.
Collin 03:06
So if you're curious, we can do right by that
Brandon 03:14
I have. I have now seen it. So okay, problem and that new Grand Tour is out. I have not watched it yet. Same. I have not watched it either. But so whenever you do, we can talk about that too. If you okay. Yes. Okay, let you know what I've been doing. My pop culture stuff going on here. So that's what I got so far. I like it. Well, and
03:46
when I'm working at my desk typing and stuff, I'm either listening to podcast but I have been trying to wrap up the demon slayer swordsmith village arc, barrel, and I just did the season finale. So just wrap that up. And that's what I saw. You finished Carson. I finished that one. It was good. It was good. I will say quick comment. There. Normal episodes are like 20 minutes, 23 minutes. And then the season finale is always like one hour.
Brandon 04:18
That sounds about right. You got to wrap up a lot, you know,
04:21
much, much.
Brandon 04:24
I do a lot of wrapping up. Also today I started watching just because I was already on Amazon Prime hashtag not sponsored but hey, how's it going yet? Yet? The power of Yes. What my bulletin board says my classroom.
04:40
Great tie in.
Brandon 04:42
But I started watching that reacher show today the Jack Reacher Oh yeah. Pretty good stuff right there. I know I'm a little late because it was came out like last year but you know, getting around. I was just like popped up of recommendations and I was like
Collin 04:59
Yeah, gotta go Y'all
Brandon 05:00
got anything to do today? Boom, we're gonna watch some of that. I watched about half the season today so far.
Collin 05:08
This in and out. So boom pretty good stuff. I
Brandon 05:11
like it. So I will see how it ends. I haven't finished it yet, but that's what I've been also watching. So they go what are some updates on what on earth I've been watching in my spare time is now that I have a lot of spare time figures probably be some of that ring have some reviews to bring to the table. Right? Whenever Yeah, what are you done today? Uh huh. That's it, I had to like, right.
05:43
But it's nice to be able to do that.
05:45
I don't know. I just have a little touch points on things and get caught up on especially on things that you liked. And you feel like you're having to be a drudgery?
Collin 05:55
Yeah, so just trying to
Brandon 05:58
find something to do today. In between, you know, you can only watch some watch Law and Order. And then you've got to do something else. So like, even though I love law and order. Also yesterday. Yes. You know, the day I got back the day after I got back. I can't remember now. It's only been like three days ago, man.
06:19
I still have no idea.
Brandon 06:21
When I got back the first thing that was on I found out TV was a marathon of Law and Order season one.
Collin 06:28
Whoa, whoa. Yeah. Yeah,
Brandon 06:31
Lord order season one. It was
Collin 06:35
great. Wow, when did that come out? 1990. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. New York looked a little different than Right. Like, whoa,
Brandon 06:56
there's like driving and I was like, wait, I was there. Doesn't look like that right now. Other things you get used to and like police procedurals, right. Like you don't think about they were like, you know, I got the Thumper I got the fingerprints back and they pulled out this card and handed it to him. Oh, you're like, is that they were like checking something and they were doing like the bullet with the microscope thing.
Collin 07:23
Oh, guys seen that in forever.
07:27
Last made popular in the Great Mouse Detective, I believe. I mean, of course, right
Brandon 07:32
is where they did that. And they were like, it's just like the lab stuff. It was hysterical and they were like, Yeah, we have to wait several days to get that reportedly.
07:40
Wow.
07:42
Wow. How did anything get done? I know
Collin 07:51
it was wild
07:53
or them stepping to the side to make a phone call on its own booth.
Brandon 07:56
Yeah, right there was like no, oh, let me call somebody right because like modern law and order is without the phone and they call like the whoever
08:03
right and like moodily sauntering up to their car, right? Yeah, they don't have that anymore. They don't have anymore they don't have it back then. You can't do the moody saunter snapping the phone shatter even aggressively putting in your pocket get it? Yeah.
Brandon 08:15
Because you can't there's no phone, right? There's like barely a fax machine. So like
Collin 08:21
you're so just have to like
Brandon 08:24
it's just so weird. Like
Collin 08:32
that was,
Brandon 08:32
it was just enthralling and interesting to see how much Law and Order has changed in 23 years. Right. Like it was very just a lot like wow, I can also these haircuts are incredible. Like I can't even
08:51
imagine
Brandon 08:52
like, they pull people in for an interview. Like, what are you wearing? Oh my gosh. You tend to forget about shoulder pads. Right? And like,
09:02
so much feathering? Yeah.
Collin 09:08
It's crazy. That's amazing. Well, that's it's nice to have those little time capsules there for us to go back and be horrified by I guess. Oh, oh, no. Cragin was on Season One. I remember that.
Brandon 09:38
I remember that tn Florack was an original monitor. forgot all about that. About that, that Chris North guy from Law and Order Criminal Intent was also in the original order, like, oh, yeah, he was there before they came back to reprise his role in that spin off series Law and Order Criminal Intent for a while.
Collin 09:57
Oh yeah. by
10:01
criminal intent, I don't know do you have? Do you have a favorite lawn ordered?
Collin 10:05
Spin Off?
Brandon 10:07
I mean, I like SVU just because I like to cast the most, right. Sure. Like, I like now. Importantly, I like I like it when it was like kind of like the early stuff, right? I like it when it was like in Florida and Mariska Hargitay and, you know, had like live in El livery when Elliott was still there. Yeah, ever Munch. Munch was still there, right. I like, I like that. Early stuff was my favorite. I like some of the other stuff too. But that's like my
Collin 10:36
favorite peak monitor for me. I'm on race for you. I criminal intent is okay.
Brandon 10:44
It's weird because like they, they do that thing later where they like, like one episode is like that one pair of detectives. And then the other one is like Vincent D'Onofrio and that other lady. I don't really like it enough for you on the other side, like, that's like, like every other episode of
11:06
awkward. Yeah, it's
Brandon 11:08
like, Oh, I like Chris north. Right, please. Cool. And then that other lady, the redhead lady, whatever. Number What a name is I was watching some of that earlier today. That's why I'm thinking about, like, like that, like normal law and order. Right? As but yeah. Like, I like SV the most just because like the cast the best. We talked about this for a bit dark. Not great. Just like wholesome family. Entertainment is a subject matter a bit heavy, but
Collin 11:35
that's why it's good to switch it up between the lawn orders. And I haven't watched any the new lawn order because they like brought it back. Like just normal lawn order. Yeah.
Brandon 11:46
People haven't seen any of that. So I have no
Collin 11:50
opinion on that at
11:51
all. Because I haven't seen an EMS. Last opinion firmly from early 2000s.
Brandon 11:57
Yeah. Right. Because, like normal monitor went away. And there was like a couple of random spin offs. And then like, I don't know. And then like, because then criminal intent was around for a while, and then it went away. And then SVU has been around for forever. And then like normal law and order came back again. And then like, I don't know. I haven't seen like the brand new stuff. I haven't seen a lot of the brand new stuff. I
Collin 12:21
mostly watch the reruns because they're what's on all day and well, yeah.
Brandon 12:30
You also have to switch it up, because the only ones that ever show like this last at least today and yesterday, though. SVU ones the only reruns I've been showing are the ones that I've seen, like,
Collin 12:38
recently looks like
Brandon 12:42
it's a lot less exciting. Like when you know what's happening, right? It's like, oh, well,
Collin 12:46
I don't really want to you know, the
Brandon 12:49
suspense is gone. Right? Because you know what's happening? You're like, oh, yeah, I was that guy. Okay, anyway, I'm gonna go. Right. Okay,
12:57
now on to the thing.
Collin 13:00
Yeah, moving on.
Brandon 13:01
Next. Gotta keep going. Which is why you start watching reacher. There you go. That's what you do. kablam
13:08
Ah, nice tie in very well done.
Brandon 13:22
You been up to his dog walking today in the hot,
Collin 13:25
hot mess. Oh, man, it was.
13:30
It was fine. I fortunately covering morning visits, so we didn't have to worry too much about the heat.
Collin 13:38
We are one of the
13:42
I mentioned the client the other day, that's going to be gone for a month. And so we're taking care of their dog? Well, the dog is starting to exhibit some over excited or nervous tendencies already. So we're having to kind of oh, oh, no, it's up our Yeah, I'm like, we still have three weeks left, anyway. Which is fine. It's one of those where as long as the dog isn't destructive, and we do what we can to manage the dog, it's just hard because during a visit, you can only do so much, right? And so it's going, really making sure that every single person follows the set tasks and be like, Okay, I know, look, I know you're going to be there at the second visit. And I know you're probably going to see that there's poop in the litter box. Don't, don't scoop. The third person. The third visit is when we scoop litter. It has to be that way. When we're trying to schedule we're trying to match like long tasks or tasks that we have a lot of time with short tasks, so that the person who's brushing the stock is not also needing to take them on a 20 minute walk. Because we can't, can't do those two things. At the same time.
Brandon 14:55
There's not a time,
14:56
right. There's just not enough time to brush him appropriately.
Collin 15:01
at all. So it's a, we've,
15:05
the second, the first visit of the day was supposed to be when our big walk was for him. But now we're gonna go ahead and add a second walk at the second visit, because that one was just like play time in the outside and brush a cat. So it's like, okay, well, let's switch the playtime in the backyard to a good walk. And then we'll brush the cat like, that's what we can do to help with this, because he's just getting very, very excitable when we come in, which is either he's got energy to burn off, or he's trying to get anxious. And so we're trying to like, hit both of those by helping him manage his energy a little bit better. So we'll see. So that was something that came up today, it was like, okay, like, we need to write up a how to and read and change up a few of these things.
15:50
So that he can last the rest of them
15:53
so that we can also so that we can last for the UK the rest of
15:57
the month. That's a lot.
Brandon 16:00
That's a long time to have to deal with a very he has delgo
16:05
Sachi. Yeah. And so we have to make sure that we, you know, are monitoring his, or any destruction and all that good stuff. So, we will see, I kind of foresee that we will be purchasing some puzzles, and such here shortly, to help entertain him while we are away. But we'll, we'll cross that bridge when we come to us.
Collin 16:39
Hmm, that sounds interesting. It's, no, it's
16:45
one of those. It's one of those things of going. Yeah, we like I have to adjust my microphone. Sorry.
Brandon 16:52
Sorry. It's part of the gig.
16:54
Yeah, that's how you know it's real. can't mimic those sounds? Ah, that's not a I can't program that sounds it? Oh, yeah. Never. Yeah, oh, going, Okay, this dog normally is at home with stay at home owner and the other works outside the home. So that environment is very different than the current environment that it's in. And also used to having kids in the family. So there's a lot more action that the dog is usually exposed to, or activities they are throughout the day. So we are it really, it really turns into a true enrichment mindset now of what can we do in our little time window, to to mentally get him engaged and exhausted, to physically get him engaged, and exhausted, to build that connection with him to help his love tank, you know, all that stuff. And right now we're having to go Okay, so, you know, first visit is about physical exercise, you know, second visit was about mental stimulation, third visit was mental stimulation. And then fourth is it was more physical exercise, but I think we're just going to have to have a kind of a continuing rotation of what those look like, so that it doesn't become root, or, or boring, or predictable. And he can still have fun things to engage in. But that's where sitting down with everybody and going, okay,
18:24
like, what ideas we have, how do we actually do this? And
Collin 18:31
was it something that's gonna be a lot more common, we just did a total. So in addition to changing all of our software, and ripping out that entire guest, and also changing like, how we bill and stuff, we also changing our pricing structure on a few things. And we've made our longer visits a little bit more attractable attractive attractable that's the word I want to give
18:55
attractive. Yeah, no, they don't know they are attractable. Because they aren't there, they have the potential to be attractive. So okay. My brain, yes, more attractive to our clients. And we're going to try pushing those more. And as I explained to all of our staff of going I went 30 minutes is a fee is going to feel very different than 60 minutes. Like all those times where you were like on the couch, petting the dog, you're like, oh, gosh, I gotta go do other stuff. Now you can sit on the couch for a little bit longer. While you pet the dog bite you. You're not going to feel as chunk, chunk, chunk, chunk, chunk from thing to thing. But that also means that you can't luxuriate too much and the time because then you're going to look up and you've been there an hour and 20 minutes. So it's going to be kind of a different mindset for what to do with like, what does it mean to throw the ball play fish in the backyard, like really budgeting that timeout differently, but it feels weird. Every time I do an hour long visit, it just feels wrong. No, because I it's not what I normally do. So it'll be. So we wrote up a big long list of possible things you can do to fill an hour long, and adding a bunch of ideas and stuff to it. We've been sending that to staff, so they have those
Collin 20:15
on hand for just different possible ideas. Very interesting.
Brandon 20:25
The reason for going to longer visits
Collin 20:28
is that to just service dog needs
Brandon 20:33
more to alleviate scheduling conflicts, like what is the benefit of doing that really? Well,
20:44
so there are pros and cons to it, I will say. So when we went from 30 to 60, we did not just double our rate. So what does that mean? Well, that means that, you know, because an hour long is actually taking up two slots where another person could have potentially booked a 30 minute visit at the full rate. So if we had 230 minute visits back to back by two separate clients, we would be getting more money than we would by staying at one client for
Collin 21:08
longer. However, it is less costly per visit, to conduct.
21:16
What do I mean by that, once I'm at the visit, all of my costs for getting there are, are are taken into account. So the time I have to pay staff members to get there is already there, the mileage I have to reimburse for my results, gas, all that stuff, like you know, is already is already taken into account. So every moment I stay longer at that client becomes more and more profitable for us. And we can actually pay our staff members better. Because of that, because per visit, we the company, make more after expenses are taken into account. So it's okay. It's more profitable in that in that in that case. But
Collin 22:01
if you look at like total overall revenue, if all we did was Book One hours, total revenue, we would make less, but the profit on that would be profit, I'm just saying like after expenses, what's leftover like that would be that would be more. And so it gives us more margin for purchasing supplies, continuing education, giving raises, that kind of stuff. So we that's, that's why we want to make those a little bit more attractive, attractive, see, I use the word right.
22:35
Also, we can pitch them as a sometimes at night, people may want you we can we can rebranded also as a tuck in service of let us come into it at night. And we can spend a little bit longer by about double the amount of time being with your dog being with your cat really make rounding out the day with him really well. And just spending more time with them before we leave, so that they get, you know, maybe extended a little bit later into the evening than it normally would. So we'll see how that goes. But that was and I say all that to say that. As soon as we push that out there and we people were notified about it, one person booked a week and a half of mid day one hour long visits. So I was like, great. Ah, now I need to do this our typical Mo i Let's just push this out there and see what oh my gosh, people like this and then we have to figure it out.
Brandon 23:38
Cuz you know, that creates like weird staffing issues where you have to because like, if some people are doing like this want 30 minutes or other people want like an hour now it's like, oh,
Collin 23:47
who How do I do that? Right? How
Brandon 23:51
do I get people?
23:53
Well, yes. And so that is going to be an issue. Because if we've got a busy schedule of vacation clients, and there have been times where it's like, I have no more time to put here in this in this time block. If somebody wanted an hour long, like, we would have to deny them an hour long. Because if we if you know a lot of times it's like 630 to seven 710 to 747. You know, then you go okay, 755 to like Yeah, back to back to back to back to back, which points like oh, if I had to double the amount of time that I was here, it'd be really restrictive for my ability to take on more clients. So it's a it's a risk that we're going to run.
Brandon 24:39
Yeah, that's what I was wondering like,
Collin 24:41
yeah, so really, the best case scenario
24:45
will be when we have double coverage over each time block. And then I can shuffle visits in between two separate staff members, and go okay, like you get the hour long you get these two visits you You get this, you get that so I can move that to create more space. That makes sense. But we're not there yet. So
25:11
you know, we'll just, we'll just figure it out and
Brandon 25:15
go with it. See what happens. Right? Exactly
Collin 25:20
what we do? Oh, yeah, that's been.
25:28
That has been, that has been what we have been been doing. And we sent out another email reminder today about people to activate their accounts. Oh, my goodness, you tell people that you're like shutting off the old one. And people who haven't booked you for a year and a half are suddenly activating their account and filling out their client profile information? And I'm like, why? Do you even live here anymore? I haven't heard from you in a year. What are you doing?
25:55
So well, you know, this
Brandon 25:57
one, make sure just in case, you know,
26:00
we have had that happen to where someone says, Hey, I just want to fill out the profile just in case like, oh, okay,
Brandon 26:05
fine, like whatever we're here for whenever they do need it like? Yes.
Collin 26:13
Well, that's been our big push to have like, it is a bit of a process. Because while we did bring, we brought over as much information as we could from our old software, but some of it got a little jumbled. And also, some of it is three or four years old, or when we first started caring for some people. So it's a great time to update your emergency contact information. Right. So yeah, some fields have been intentionally left blank. Another big one is, previously we were kind of keeping up with vaccination records by just having clients text us a photo of their vaccination record, and then that would just kind of stay in that message thread. However, with this new system, it allows it to be stored in the profile. And what's really neat is the client uploads a photo of it or uploads the actual document, and they set when it's going to expire. And then we have to come in and confirm that and enter the actual expiration date. And then it automatically sets reminders to send those people X number of weeks or months before it expires, so that it can stay current.
27:26
However, not many people just keep their vaccination records lying around. And so that can be a bit of a process. If you have to go to your vet, ask them for this information, they have to send it to you, you have to go back to the profile, upload it, type in information, and then send it to us to confirm. And if you're needing to visits to start today, or tomorrow, that's just not going to happen. So we can switch it off per client and say, Okay, nevermind, we'll remove that from you. Just make sure that you get it to us when you get back. We're trying not to do that, because we really want to stay up to date with this stuff. But it's also, we don't want to inconvenience people because they're used to operating one way. So trying to get ahead of people on going, you may only book us two times a year. Go ahead and get your information right now so that you don't have to worry about this when that time comes.
Collin 28:15
That makes sense, I guess. But also, people don't just put that
Brandon 28:22
in a folder, just keeping the thing like that doesn't
28:25
No, no a lot of people just is they get the receipt from it. And then they just like, throw it away. Right? Because it's just a receipt. A lot of cases. It's not like a document.
Collin 28:37
Right? Through I guess that's this seems weird, but I don't know.
28:47
It's how some people operate. Right? I it's just, you know, you think some people would keep it some, but they don't. And so we've got to go. Okay, well, I mean,
Brandon 28:55
yeah, cuz like, I guess the thing that you need is a little color tag. Right? Yes. So like, if like, because like our event would just give us like the updated little coloring thing. And that is usually all you'd need. Right? Because just like okay, here's my proof. It's on this little doodad this little bubble and I'm gonna hang on color. Right? And then that's all you really care about. So like, is it good to take a picture of that year drew like no one's done that yet. Because sometimes they don't have I don't remember if sometimes they do the expiration date on the collar and sometimes they don't. Sometimes on the bed or whatever. Yeah. So anyway, she just put it on there. They just send you a picture of the caller name, man. That's Get with it. Yes. Expert it usually has the date that it happened. Yes on there. Like the data was updated, but not an expiration date, if I remember
Collin 29:55
correctly. I think it does too. wouldn't happen. So you would just have to.
30:03
Yeah, so I, that would probably work. But again, sometimes, even then clients don't have that on their, on their tags. Sometimes dogs don't. So anyway, we just want the document that way, it also has the vet information on it that we can check to see if that's also on their client profile. Because sometimes they don't put that in. Right. So good point at it. We just want the document or photo of the document. And so that's, that's been fine. And then the other thing is that this means that we've been sending out these emails, well, some clients are still the old software, and they've been contacting us worried that they logged in and create an account, they don't see their ones their their visits that were in the old software. So we've been having to update them and say, No, if it's in the old software, it's in the old software, we'll see those through, but any new ones,
Collin 30:51
right? We, we will, we'll go through the
30:55
new one. So having to reassure people like No, it's okay, like, we still have all this stuff, even though you're gonna log into a brand new account, it's gonna be completely empty, we still have you. So that's been another point of needing to reassure people.
Collin 31:07
That sounds like a lot of headache
Brandon 31:12
is really what this is, it's just a lot of like, no.
31:22
Which is why we didn't do this for too long, right? Which is why each time, we would look at our current software and go, oh, we need to move this, or ah, can you believe this? Or, again, we would then look at the prospect of the next, you know, three months that we'd be dedicating our life to making the transition happening, go? Yeah, no, we're good. Real good. We'll find that did I? Did I ever actually tell you why we ended up making the switch?
Collin 31:58
No, okay. Okay. So, the reason
32:04
that we decided to make the switch would be building. One
Collin 32:08
thing is, as with anything in life,
32:12
where it has anything that you're using to make money, or as part of your business, or even just in your personal life, things like support, help, documentation, that kind of stuff, are a lot more important than you ever really understand or realize. Because you get into something and you go, why would I ever need to call it about this? What could what could possibly mean? What could possibly go wrong? Like, I'll just start the software, and we'll be good to go.
Collin 32:42
And then it may have functioned like
32:45
that for a while. And then you start to run into weird edge cases, or you want to try and do something with a software that it physically can't do. And you want to know if it can do that, or if they can make that change, or clients have problems or, and so the only way to interact with this company, the original one was basically through messaging, they had no phone number to surfaced, or really real way to book a call easily with them. And every time we message sometimes
Collin 33:16
in that sounds weird, like I don't know,
33:19
yes, yes. And after a while, they kind of they made a section to the app where you could go in and you could request a phone call. But sometimes the phone calls were booked up for like two and a half weeks out. So I was like, what, ha, like, I need this now. Like I needed this yesterday. And then each time that we did message with the support, it was like we had never talked to them before. It was all frustrating, Lord. Yeah. They were like, they were like, Well, hello, thank you for contacting us. What did you read this help article, and we're like we've right at all times are like scroll up in the chat. And it's already there, like, so it just got to where like it really wasn't progressing. And I don't know that early on. We also we sat down with a big phone call for them with them where they were a squeaky wheel. And they were like, Hey, here's our professional success team member, they want to talk to you about some features that you want. And we had all these things. And they were like, oh, yeah, that's great. Yeah, we'll get this. We'll get this on the timeline. And oh, yeah, we're rolling out this. This is coming soon. We're gonna go back. And I know software development is hard. And I know software development never follows timelines. The app when we first came on, they were like, Yeah, brand new one and like, four months, out two years ago, it's the exact same. Like they haven't made any changes to this. And the changes that they do make are like, they're like, Well, what if you sell products? We've made it easier than ever to sell products. And we're like, that's not what that's not what I wanted. I don't know.
Brandon 34:56
That's not what I do. Yeah, so it's the wrong fit for You're what yeah, you and then
Collin 35:02
kind of life.
35:04
And then the way they technically do, right, so the way they do this is it's a messaging app. Basically, it's just like WhatsApp or Facebook messenger that you download on your phone, where it doesn't doesn't expose your personal data to the person on the other end, it just comes through as a message. Now, here's where things get a little tricky. They don't require the the client to download the app. So how do they get messages that come through as text messages? So here's what happens. When you benefit, yes. Okay, ready for this?
35:39
Are you ready for this? I don't just okay. What happens is, when
35:42
you log into the app, all you give them is your phone number. And then it sends you a security code, and then boom, you're into the app.
Collin 35:51
What happens is when you message, it takes your phone number, goes over to their servers, gobbles it up, and spits it out as our company phone number.
36:07
Okay, but that's your phone number. So what happens when I have a team of 11 people, each one of their phone numbers, gets sent to the server garbled up, and then spit out as the same phone number as the
Collin 36:21
company. So okay, so. So the
36:26
client, this is something we were never comfortable with. Technically, the client never knew who was messaging them, because it just came through as a phone number. Right? So it's, it's very simplistic, it's very, it's beautifully simplistic in that way, in it never. It's not confusing. They're not getting messages from 11 different people, which is which is nice, right? That's a that's a good feature. So we just had staff members sign off with like a dash and then their name. So mine would say, you know, great walk today saw a bunch of birds poop twice, you know, P two times, was easy on the walk didn't react whenever we saw the dog across the yard. It's great seeing them today dash Colin, we just had people update their way. So So now you're going okay, well, what happens when the client responds, okay, because the clients going to respond, because it's just it from their perspective, it's literally just a text
Collin 37:16
message. So client responds, it gets garbled up into the server, and get spat back to the last person who texted them. And it shows,
37:32
and it shows up, just as the client profile, it doesn't show their phone number because it's coming through the app to the staff member. But it goes it only goes back to the last person who messaged them. So in order for us to see a message threads, and it did that for every single person. So if you did today, and then I did tomorrow, they would you could have, you could be chatting with them. But your chat would disappear as soon as I showed up to check in and started messaging them. And they would stop being able to message you
Brandon 37:58
and find this what in the world it
38:01
would be? Well. So
38:10
I will say ever, as a lightweight app of like, I just want to get in and start doing services and messaging. Like it is beautiful at that there's nothing needed. Clients don't even need the app. Remember it? Let's keep that in mind. Clients don't need the app. It keeps it super simple. It's just text messages. That's what everybody does. And we had a lot of people who really liked that where they just, you know, they just texted that's all they needed. They got text, they got photos, they got updates, they could respond. But if we needed to. The other thing was is that if a step if a client responded and say, Hey, don't put them in the kennel? Well, if the client if the staff member puts their phone in their pocket, and they're off the clock, they just walk away. Well, who gets that notification? Well, it goes to their phone. So Megan and I were constantly diving into each individual staff members Message Threads, making sure clients weren't sending them questions or updates or weird things so that we could then stay on top of it. And then we had a question from the very beginning of like, how does the phone number show up? And they said, Oh, it shows up, put your company phone number a great,
Collin 39:12
okay. Now, what happens when a staff member leaves? All that
Brandon 39:18
stuff that saves, isn't it because it's directed to their number. So it's not saved in like a common thread. There's no like company thread because everybody's individual phone number is like, quote, a company is gonna lose a bunch of stuff, right?
39:32
You're gonna lose a bunch of documents, a lot documented history of communications of questions of problems, all that disappear.
Collin 39:41
Additionally, let's say you work for me tonight, and you quit tomorrow. And that client doesn't book right away. And four months go by and then they message that text thread and say hey, come on. Do you have availability for tomorrow? Got you? To whom? To whom? To whom? Would that message go?
Brandon 40:07
And nobody knows, probably to no one, I would get the way that I know.
40:11
I know because I know because I demanded the text logs and I combed through them. Here's what happens. It doesn't go to that app. Because that app, that template from the from the staff member is gone. It goes to their parent, it goes to their personal phone number and shows up as a text.
Collin 40:32
Ah.
40:37
And then, and then here's the really great thing. When the staff member tries to respond, they get to respond, because it's not, they get an error that says, please download the please, please download the app. So you can continue messaging, so they're stuck. And if you have a staff member who is terminated on some not so very good terms, they're not going to tell you about this. Oh, and they're, and there's no way to go in from my end as an admin to see that message because it doesn't exist because they're not a team member anymore.
Collin 41:11
Yeah. So
Brandon 41:15
this is design thing I've ever heard.
41:18
I found out about this, I found out about this, because we have staff member leave. She loved working for us just she needed to change. Totally fine. she'd send it she sent me a screenshot one day of like, Hey, I don't think I should be giving this. And I was like, why? And it was your correct. Singer. And I shot back and got on this tech support. And we blew this up. And I demanded, I said, I have had a lot of turnover. Okay, I need you to send me a log file of the text messages for these
Collin 41:55
seven people. Oh, no. Okay.
42:01
Turns out over the last now, I will say over the last five months, it's only six months. It's only happened
Collin 42:07
five times. But it'll it happened, right? It happened that this was the last straw for us of
42:17
it. They thought that they engineers at the company thought it worked one way and it does not saying flat out said engineering says it will be rerouted to the admin number to the add to your admin account. And I was like, explain this. I have a
Brandon 42:38
photo.
42:41
Right. And they were like,
42:43
ah,
42:45
we'll work on getting that there next. so horrible that they're there their statement of will get that fix coupled with our long history of them not fixing things.
Brandon 42:59
Not occurring. Well, I guess we know what's going on now
43:03
the history of their support. And now the egregious SNESs of this of like, okay,
43:10
this is a really cool system. It has not been battle tested. And we can't have that smell.
Collin 43:19
Straight up. Can't
Brandon 43:22
Oh, man. So the disaster.
43:28
Oh my gosh, it was it was so the system we moved to is like the granddaddy of all software's. It is it is a sledgehammer to all problems. It. It is it started in 2012.
Collin 43:50
or older than that. It's it's been
43:54
hammered out by it's only for pet sitting and dog walking companies like that's their only people that they served, that they serve. It's got they only only employ people on their staff that like have done pet setting things. Most of their IT staff and their customer support staff have been dog walkers and pet sitters before
44:21
or have like, yeah,
44:23
the cove, the CO owners crossed the co owner. He he he and his wife used to own a dog walking pet sitting company for several years before they started using the software. And then he came on as staff to the software and now he's co owner of the software. So
44:41
there's like okay, these people get us
44:45
right they understand what needs to be done. Now. I will also say they do things weird. They do things very weirdly. Right. Very odd. They don't We don't bill the way they bill. They do it they do entirely off of invoicing so they have The world's best,
Collin 45:01
most complicated invoicing system
45:06
in the world, you can have automated half automated fully. Next day, same day, all sorts of buttons and doodads and flips to
Collin 45:15
Bob. But it's like, ah, we don't,
45:20
we haven't done invoicing, like ever. So like we're having to learn. So now we're having to, like learn their system. And like, it's just part of that, like, this is what that's not how we operate. But to get the benefits of everything, we have to do this. So that's a big pain points. And there's other stuff. So it's like, I don't want to be that guy of like, Hi, I'm brand new here. Here's seven things that I recommend you try and do when they've been a company for like, 11 years. Like, that's not you. I'm trying not to be that person. But also it's like, I you've probably thought about this, but this would be a pretty neat feature. And you know?
45:59
Ah, yeah,
46:02
yeah. That's, that's why it wasn't that. Good.
Brandon 46:07
Well, that makes a lot more sense. Cuz that is horrendous and disgusting. And that's literally the worst thing I've ever heard of. So I don't know why other somebody would decide to do things that way. But here we go. I guess that's,
Collin 46:23
and I know, they were trying to be mobile first. They are trying to be extremely lightweight. They are trying to use existing technologies. You know, one of the things that most of the other petsitting software's out there do they're like, Oh, your staffing company and get get updated immediately with emails. And I'm like, Oh, my God, fax machine, right. Yes. And so the our former, you know, former software was like, X message and phone only we don't even have a desktop app. What are you doing? Why would you book on the website, like to go to your phone? Like, it was very modern in that aspect. But we were we were at I mean, truly, I'm gonna say at the ragged edge of what this thing was possible and constantly going past it with number of employees with complexity of services and amount of usage. Because most of the time that when people who they say this is for is like, Are you a carpet cleaner or maid service and want to book things like, so it's, there's one crew, or it's just yourself, and herder butter. And we're like, What if 11 People were operating at the exact same time every single day? Would that be fun?
47:33
No, and their servers said, No, thank you.
47:38
Yeah, we're just gonna shut down now. But yeah, pretty much
47:40
pretty much as what we did to those. So, you know, fun times. Oh, yeah.
Brandon 47:47
Great, right.
47:50
That that is why we find ourselves where we find ourselves. Let's make innocent in this process. makes it less.
48:07
It's not quite as interesting as where Bilbo found himself. Hey, the start of chapter two. True.
Brandon 48:17
That is, in fact true, because our below fan himself was in his house alone. Okay, well, by all this confusion was a wild night. Yes.
Collin 48:30
It's true. When he woke up and they were all gone.
48:31
He was and he was feeling just a trifle disappointed. I love these words, trifle, just a trifle disappointed. And we continue, we continue to get the premium we're still in the growing character phase of this of, of him discovering new parts of himself of like, he could not help feeling a trifle disappointed. And the feeling surprised him. I love that so much.
Brandon 48:59
Yes. Strange thing, right? Yeah, he's conflicted. A little bit. Confused, right? And then like, also annoyed, right? Because he's like, Ah, I gotta clean up all this stuff. We get to all this
49:13
nonsense, right?
Brandon 49:16
So he's having his inner conflict, but it like it's kind of weird because it it. It assumes I'm you know, you're sort of assuming that some time has passed. But it's like in the second paragraph like Gandalf, just Burson, like, what are you doing? Like, what am I doing?
49:36
It's almost the the story is advancing now.
Brandon 49:40
Yeah, yeah. It's kind of it's like, oh, by the way, again, you could tell the again, the narration style. This is like, fast and loose, right? It's like, it is just how you would aurait a story. You know what I mean? Like, Yeah, feels like because it's like, anyway, but not for the last time I'm sure. But yeah,
Collin 50:00
anyway. Yeah. Gandalf us in is all like, what are you doing? Like I'm
Brandon 50:06
eating? What are you doing? Why are you in my house again?
Collin 50:09
And then the classic? The classic blender, right? Oh, didn't you read the note? What note? What? No, you can't just go
Brandon 50:21
and leaving random pieces of paper on people's mantel pieces and expect them to find it and immediately respond to you. Right? Like, what is this story? That's
50:29
what I love about this is you can almost see the conversation that Thorin and company had with Gandalf of like, should we leave? And Gandalf responded with Don't worry, he'll wake up and he'll start cleaning immediately and find this note right of like hill he can't stand a dirty room he's going to clean this put it on the mantelpiece, he always dust that you know, blah, blah, blah. And then below is so unlike himself, it has didn't dust the mantelpiece cotton. Ah, Haven't we all?
Collin 50:55
Haven't we all found ourselves? Not having dusted the mantelpiece? Yeah, you know, it's, you know, it's just,
Brandon 51:03
I mean, again, if you wanted to find it, put it right on the table. Yes, it is. In eyesight? Like what? What is this? Right? This is like, okay, so whenever I miss a thought, I have a lot of times, right? Whenever I go take you know, the office always like, Hey, bring me x paper or whatever. Right? And you go there, and nobody's ever there. Right? They're always gone. Secretaries always gone. Principals never in our office. Right?
Collin 51:29
So what do you do with the paper? Right? You have to put it somewhere. You don't know where to put it? You need to make sure they find it. Where does it go? This is a conundrum that I have oftentimes, so what I do is I put it right directly in their chair they always
Brandon 51:52
and they always know that I brought it right. You put it in the mailbox thing you know like the tray the mailbox thing you don't know if they've read that recently you don't know how often they go through it if you get lost in the shuffle and also you just want to randomly throw it on the desk because it's definitely getting lost somewhere. So I always just put it right in the in the seat I easily find that
52:17
I trained staff on this of okay, you've collected a bunch of trash from a house and you've got in a bag where are you going to put that bag so you don't forget to you you person don't forget it. Where do you put it? You don't put on the counter you don't put it in a chair because then it just immediately blends into the background and you will not see it because you're moving but the client will come in and immediately go Why is there a trash bag on my chair? Right?
52:44
Exactly. You put it
52:47
right in front of the door preferably hanging it on the door handle that your man right so right in the way Exactly, exactly. Not on a non dusted mantelpiece
Collin 52:57
exactly Come on. Get out of here and I love the the terms of this contract
53:12
you know funeral expenses to be defrayed by us or representatives if occasion arises. There we go
Brandon 53:21
you know, just enough to cause some more trepidation on this part, right like just enough weirdness to be like wait, what
53:29
I don't what
Brandon 53:36
so he is rushed out the door to go meet the people at the Green Dragon Inn. Right which is still in the Shire? I believe right the green dragon is in the Shire. This is where Merry and Pippin later will spend a lot of time right they love the green dragon. So he hasn't gone too far but he's still gotta like look it because they're almost getting ready to leave. Right
54:00
and he rushed in such in such a hurry that he forgot what of all everything literally everything all looting his pocket handkerchief. Oh, yes. It's so so offset by this. This is
Brandon 54:14
I am imagining this is like token self insert character. Because like if you just see the way the man dresses, right, like the most British way possible, right? Like,
Collin 54:24
tweed, everything. Like vast shirt, tie. Jacket. outer jacket. Uh huh.
Brandon 54:37
You know, those of like, Tolkien does not go anywhere without a handkerchief. I can guarantee you that he. This is true. Yeah, looking at how he's dressed. Like how he portrays himself. That man never went anywhere without a handkerchief. So and because old people just don't go places without handkerchief. This is like a thing without right. This is like a very good racial thing.
Collin 55:02
Old people have handkerchief. That's just how it works. I don't know why.
55:07
It's this. It's this first sign of him. I mean, I'm gonna say tangible sign of leaving comforts and moving past what he's known. Right. It's this he dropped. He couldn't imagine having ever done this before. What like, but here he is, and it's starting, starting starting off the adventure without a handkerchief.
Brandon 55:28
Yeah, I like how he's not concerned about like, a coat. Right?
55:33
Or anything else. He's just like, Oh, rats. Yeah,
Brandon 55:36
I would have my handkerchief. Good. Can we just agree that handkerchiefs are disgusting, anyway,
55:42
and you should not have them bother me.
Brandon 55:45
I hate to bother me.
55:48
Because I carry them.
Brandon 55:51
Yeah, no, go ahead. You tell me about yours. And I will tell you why they are gross.
55:54
Okay, well, so. You know, Dad used to have a handkerchief, like all the time is my fingertips. And but I carried them or at least had them on my person. For like, more emergency scenarios, not for the oh, I need to blow my nose. I will use a handkerchief. I've never used a handkerchief to blow my mind. Good. It's
Collin 56:13
good. Discussing ever, ever. Now.
56:17
Did I use it? Have I used it to like bandage wounds? Yes. Or blow my child's nose? Yes, but then.
56:28
It's like it never existed and I won't use it again. Right.
Collin 56:34
Right. So,
Brandon 56:36
listeners, I need your input. Right? We have a beautiful worldwide friendship base here.
Collin 56:44
I need to know how this works. Here's how it works in the Midwest, right? Probably also the South. I'm just guessing that's probably true.
Brandon 56:57
I didn't spend enough time in New England did not see any old people with handkerchiefs in New England. So shame. I don't know what to do that information. However, people with handkerchiefs in the Midwest in the South. They're always old farmer dudes.
Collin 57:11
Right? They have them. It's either like a white, actual handkerchief. Sort of bandana situation. Yeah. But it is always folded into a square. And in the back pocket all the time. Or
Brandon 57:30
the only other place it is is tucked into the front pocket of the overall
Collin 57:33
which is worse. But old people.
Brandon 57:38
What they will do is they will pray they will produce this handkerchief from their back pocket, unfolded, blow their nose in it, and then fold it up and put it back in their pocket.
Collin 57:50
Which is
Brandon 57:52
the most distressing thing
Collin 57:56
I can possibly imagine happening. It's just, it's gross. I don't like it. Right? Like,
Brandon 58:03
I've never enjoyed this. I've never understood what you're gonna do. Hang around us naughty handkerchief all day. Because you will then see them later. reproduce the same negative and blow their nose again. redeposited back into their pocket. This is not okay. I don't like this. It hurts me. It's just gross.
Collin 58:32
The thought
Brandon 58:33
this like big ol snotty rags hanging out your pocket
Collin 58:42
please let us know. Right. Tell us you know, this
Brandon 58:45
is a phenomenon that occurs in your part of the world. I need no no.
58:49
No, I don't want I don't want to hear any handkerchief news. Moving on.
Brandon 58:52
I just want to know, I want to know. For now No, right? Yes, I witnessed this or no. You don't have to describe in great detail. Or that weird thing where they're like, they're like hockey big things for like, spin it and make it bad. No. No. No, no, no. Moving on. Anyway, yes, he gets to offense Waltons gear, and just put it on a hunt. He looks weird, because he's tiny. And he has weird workflows now. So
59:27
that's it.
59:29
And this can, let's get into the I don't want to say the yatta yatta section. But yeah, this is definitely the yatta yatta section. One section. They're like, they pass through Hobbit lands, and then strange lands. And then stranger stranger lands. And anyway, wicked people.
Brandon 59:48
Yeah, there's a bit of part in here where it's like, yeah, it's just kind of like you're reading it and you're going
Collin 59:54
what in the world? I know.
Brandon 59:57
So yeah, it's like two pages of do It's sort of like nothing.
1:00:02
All right, very quickly, people get frustrated and grumbly. And uncomfortable. And yeah, it is. It's just two pages of like, it's soggy and wet. And we're still walking, and I don't have clothes. And
Collin 1:00:18
it's weird out here. And so on. Which is again, it's weird because like,
Brandon 1:00:27
I don't know, this is a bit I mean, talking does tend to like babble on about stuff. Like,
Collin 1:00:33
this is like,
Brandon 1:00:35
babbling on about nothing. Right? He's usually babbling on about something, right? Talking about something interesting. But like, this is just like, a name. And so it's like two pages. And then they're like, Oh, hey, what's that over there? And then like,
Collin 1:00:52
all of a sudden, they're just like, oh, where's Gandalf? Like?
Brandon 1:00:59
That's it. That's how we get to our next.
1:01:00
Well, it's Where's Gandalf in a pony runs away? Right? I think as well. Yeah. And they start to look for it. And then they see that the fire is now Yeah, is in the distance. And not to foreshadow some, but then they have a bad luck following fires.
Brandon 1:01:18
That is true. This is not the best idea, right? Like, it's kind of like horror movie logic, right? They're like, what's that
Collin 1:01:25
ominous looking sign? Let's go stare at it. Like, you know. That's one thing to be inquisitive. It's quite another it's
Brandon 1:01:38
just go charging headlong into Peril, right? It's like, okay, whatever. I guess it makes the story more exciting, though.
1:01:45
It does. And it's a time to test the burglar that they have for all yes, for the for the logical ones are like, well, it's really shady in these parts. And there's no real good travelers in here. We're kind of close to those mountains where lots of evil things come from, hey, let's send the new guy
Collin 1:02:05
to go to go and do this. Yes. With really? And again, you have to
Brandon 1:02:12
you know, you have to give unclear directions and shove him off out the door. Right? The old feel that twice like a barn owl or once like a screech owl. But what is that? What the What was before he
1:02:27
can explain that he could not really different like he says off below had to go before he could explain that he could not hurt even once like any kind of Allah
1:02:43
Oh, I love
1:02:46
then we quickly get I just love that. Like, it's like, what? Yeah, I mean, I like
Brandon 1:02:50
to so this is interesting, right? Because this is a thing that like, is in a lot of pop culture. And I want to know if like, Where does this? This is like a trope in and of itself almost right? Like, where does this come from? Right. Does it come from here? Is Is this like a thing that Tolkien just knew about? That people said, right? Because this is like,
Collin 1:03:14
you know, this kind of?
Brandon 1:03:18
It's in just like culture. It's in movies. It's in books. It's everywhere. Right? Most famously the South Park movie, right when he's like, yes. called like a dying giraffe. If the guards come and be like, What the heck is that sound like? Yes. A little a little French Gatorade is like Yes. Makes it sounds like the danger app. And they're like, What? This is just like a weird. I just sort of latched on to this like arbitrarily because it's like a weird, really weird,
Collin 1:03:48
like, trope thing almost.
Brandon 1:03:51
It's all over the place. And I don't know if this is like, Is this part of Anglo Saxon literature? Or is this just like, a funny thing Tolkien put in there? Like, where does this come from?
Collin 1:04:03
Yes, exactly. I maybe. Maybe
1:04:09
I don't know if this is just the like, it's a it's a play on a military thing or something that just kind of becomes more and more absurd. The further you get removed from that setting. Oh, yeah.
Collin 1:04:21
Yeah. I don't know. I just
Brandon 1:04:25
thought I'd latched on to that a little too hard. I was like, yes. This little trophy is everywhere. Everywhere. Yeah, it is played sometimes in movies. It's played serious, right? They do like the bird call thing. Right? And it's like a serious moment. Other times it's like a joke. Like they say like this, they like make this sound and it's like some really weird sound like what I don't what does that mean? Below here is like, I don't even know what that means. And then they just like, shove him off and he walks towards the light. Right? And he does lines with that. Well, he
1:04:57
does it with pride. We learn more about habits of like Have hobbits can move quietly in the woods? Absolutely. Quietly, they take pride in it. And this will come back more and more throughout this of of his stealthiness. And you see more and more like why Gandalf taught him good for this because just being Hubbard, he is naturally good at many of these activities. That's true.
Brandon 1:05:20
It reminds me of, you know,
Collin 1:05:22
the
Brandon 1:05:24
whenever I made me think about the part in the I don't remember which movie it is the Lord of the Rings, maybe when Sam and Gollum are talking, and he's like, What
Collin 1:05:34
are you doing there? Anyway? He's like, sneaky.
Brandon 1:05:40
He's like, I'm not sneaking. He's like, What
Collin 1:05:41
were you doing in? Sneaking? Sneaking? Right? They find some peril. Right? We have some trolls here. Right? And Bilbo again. You know, he's just like, oh, no,
Brandon 1:06:03
I I'm supposed to be a burglar. Maybe I should do some light. Bergling just, you know, while I'm here. And just to see how it goes.
1:06:13
I don't I don't understand this part. This is such a such a break from like, I will say this part of like, like, he's why why did he decide to do this? Like why like he just went yell burglar because that's what I that's my that's who I am now. So I'm gonna pick pocket a troll. That's
Brandon 1:06:36
yeah, right. So like, you know, he could have just gone back and said, like, hey, there's some trolls over there. We should probably not
Collin 1:06:45
do that. Right. But yeah, it just says here,
Brandon 1:06:50
he had read of a good many things that he had never seen nor done. And he was very much alarmed, as well as disgusted and wished himself 100 miles away. And yet, he had somehow he knew he could not go straight back to throw in a company empty handed. So he stood in hesitated in the shadows of the various Berg larious proceedings, he had just heard of picking a troll pocket seemed like the least difficult. I don't know why that would seem least difficult. Right? That sounds a bit precarious. You know, like that. And clearly it was it goes very well, he's not a good burglar turns out because he's just caught straight away immediately.
1:07:28
But we're led to believe that there's something in here about this because it says trolls purses are the mischief and this was no exception. So it's like, is that a special quality about the purses of trolls are trolls particular about their purses? Like, I have a lot of questions about this, but this is one of the aspects of like, yeah, yeah, that's right. Why would you do the trolls person? No. Why would you? That's the one thing you don't go for obviously.
Collin 1:07:54
So it's busted. He does immediately. Terrible burglar.
Brandon 1:08:00
Right. Burglary goes south in a hurry to burrow Hobbit? Yeah, sure. And and then he gets like stuck. And he's trying to like talk his way out of it. Right. But he kind of like is stumbling over himself. He doesn't know what to do. He does the old like, I'm a Berber Hobbit. I mean, not a burglar. Totally not a burglar. What he
Collin 1:08:24
said that. And that confuses the trolls. Because again, trolls. Not just super with it. Right. So he's trying to figure out a way to not become cooked by the trolls. Because that doesn't sound like a very fun experience at all
Brandon 1:08:45
right? He doesn't
1:08:48
know and they get in a fight with one another.
Collin 1:08:51
For what over who's going to cook him? Right. And what exactly the what to do with anything. But then,
Brandon 1:09:02
also, the dwarves solve this in their characteristic manner.
Collin 1:09:07
They just sort of like run at them one at a time. Yep. Very bravely I've shared with absolutely no fight whatsoever. No. Atlas loop. What is this? Ridiculous like, what uh,
Brandon 1:09:33
what? What a what a rescue attempt just strolling through the camp. In a line. Just
Collin 1:09:41
yeah, well done. Everybody. Whack the most. Yep. Yep, right in the middle.
1:09:47
No, Burr hobbits, but lots of these here. dwarfs. I don't know what voice did you read the word that read the trolls in your head? You have a reading voice?
Brandon 1:09:57
I guess is kind of the movie voice right I guess
Collin 1:10:00
So I think that's probably what it was.
Brandon 1:10:03
I think about that too much.
Collin 1:10:06
For Tom. Well, yeah. And oh, and then, yeah,
1:10:16
it's trolls are hiding. Yeah. Bilbo shouts to him.
Collin 1:10:20
But he didn't last very long at all.
Brandon 1:10:26
Yeah, until Gandalf just like magically shows back up. And then like,
1:10:33
beats him like just
1:10:34
well, the controls are. Yeah. That because by mimicking their voices, and yeah, it took a few of them calling to argue until they fight all the way up until
Brandon 1:10:45
this sign, just because apparently, trolls are nocturnal, like so nocturnal, they turned to stone in the sunlight. Which seems like a terrible plan. I really, I don't really know how that's
1:11:00
why they're live in the mountains and in the valleys in the shade. So
Collin 1:11:03
in the caves. Yep. Yeah. Yep. And this is, and they all say thank you, right. Yeah, it's just like, it's just like it not. It's
Brandon 1:11:17
weird. Because it's like, Oh, hey, yeah, thanks, anyway, like, they just sort of go on. And they're like, where did you go? He's like, I was looking ahead.
Collin 1:11:26
What brought you back? Looking behind, like, Okay, thanks.
1:11:32
Yep. Gandalf comes on and says, Why were you doing this? This was ridiculous. Come this way. Right.
Brandon 1:11:39
And yes,
1:11:41
and they go and they find a cave
Collin 1:11:44
with treasures in it. Yes. A Cave of Wonders
Brandon 1:11:49
if you will. Oh, wait, no, wait. So it's not yet. I mean, it's a different just to get three but three swords? And a dagger, or is it right, because one or two at least, and then and then the sting? I mean, not yet named that? Nope. Nobody? No, I mean, yeah, it's fine. It's fine. Everything is fine. Fine. Some some awards. And some other sort of just like barriers to like what? We might be back later.
Collin 1:12:22
We get this later. A little bit. Right. Like it's fun.
Brandon 1:12:31
But they do have some sorts now. So that's good. That could that's definitely something that could be candy on an adventure, right? Uh, huh.
1:12:39
Yes. As we will as will be important in later chapters, I
Brandon 1:12:43
believe. Yes, definitely.
1:12:51
Oh, yeah. And then we, we go right into chapter three, with three is weird. This is the most dreamlike one. I mean, honestly, there's, there's not a whole lot of, to me personally, that that happens in this story. There's not a lot of progression except this is where we find this. So this is where they make their way to find they have to find Rivendale are short for rest
Brandon 1:13:18
for a short rest, a short run.
1:13:22
So yeah, they're just like wandering around.
Brandon 1:13:24
And they they're getting towards the mountains right there at the beginning of the Misty Mountains, right, the big mountain chain that runs down through there. And so they're like, it was like, is that the mountain that they have to be like? No, we got a long way to go, buddy. Don't worry about it. These mountains look lonely. No, there's a billion of them. We need just one.
Collin 1:13:45
But they know
Brandon 1:13:46
that they have to go looking for L rock. Right. That's where they want to go. They want to go find L Ron. The elven Lord of Rivendale. Right so this guy walking through this like, like a maze of like, Valley with like crags and peaks and all kinds of stuff. So it's kind of like Riverdale is kind of like hidden, right, the zigzag path into the secret valley of Rivendale.
Collin 1:14:10
Right? Is what it says here. Yeah, like
1:14:15
I will say before this, Bilbo sees a mountain. And he goes, is that the mountain in politics? Like? Of course not. I just yeah. Like he was personally insulted by this
1:14:28
by this fact.
Brandon 1:14:32
It was never seen a mountain before right? He lives in the Shire. It's fine. Yes,
1:14:38
yes. But yes, they make their way wading through this and then this is where we find them. And the elves and they're very, and there are a lot of songs in this part halls are weird in this, right? Like, I know. We talked about that on the first episode of this, of going like, very, very odd, not at all like later. Are glitter elves?
Brandon 1:15:00
Yeah. So like this is this is weird because like, other in like all of other Tolkien's work like elves are very like,
Collin 1:15:09
serious. Right? Like, they're like all about business. Right and the Silmarillion the elves are like, honor and
Brandon 1:15:20
duty and all stuff, right? They're all very like, serious and then you get here and they're like singing like wistful songs through the trees at the travelers as they're walking by.
Collin 1:15:30
What in the world is this? Right, so this
Brandon 1:15:35
story to me, I told colonists when I saw him in person, so I'll share this with listeners. i This, this reads like early Tolkien, the elves,
Collin 1:15:46
right. So, we don't know.
Brandon 1:15:50
In the very early drafts of the Tolkien legendarium, II referred the elzar called gnomes. Right? And they were like, a bit different, right? They were this this reads more like that, to me, right? This is very, like, kind of like, singing songy kind of stuff, right. And it reminds me a little bit of, in the very, very early stuff in his like Book of Lost Tales, when he was still trying to connect, like, the Tolkien stories to like English mythology, he wants to make them like a British mythological thing, right? His character goes to this random Island. And he goes to this place called the cottage of last play. And he meets these like, people, and they tell him the stories of like, Middle Earth or whatever, right? And this gives me that kind of vibe of that like time, because it's just so like, whimsical and
Collin 1:16:51
weird. And just like, what? It is weird to me, right? It's
Brandon 1:16:58
a strange thing. These elves are weird. They're not serious. Like are they are like, mega serious. Right? Like, right. But it's also weird, because like, they have the names, right? And they mentioned a lot of stuff that Tolkien is talking about, right? So this is, again, one of those places where I feel like Tolkien just sort of like, randomly throwing stuff down to see what would stick right. This is
1:17:22
like what was going on? Right?
Brandon 1:17:26
Because you have all these jelly ELLs, but then you have L Ron, who is character in some of the like, stuff, right is super million in the Second Age parts. L Ron is there, you know, so I don't know, if you just like pick that name out. It was like, oh, yeah, I don't know how planned this was, you know?
Collin 1:17:46
So it's kind of weird. Yeah,
1:17:50
I mean, it is yet they say things in here like, you know, for some elves tease them and laugh at them. And most of all, that their beards like they're very, they are very jolly, and it doesn't feel icky. Said It feels very early. It feels very weird. But there are other aspects of here. Like, it doesn't say L Ron is doing this. So L Ron. Like so. I don't know if this is still nailing down what else? How else act? Or if this is, you know, L Ron is? He's acting one way. And the others are acting in different way. Like I don't I don't know. Yeah, maybe they're
Brandon 1:18:27
ill. Children or something? I don't know. But like,
Collin 1:18:31
right. Right. That's a good point. Yeah. Because then
Brandon 1:18:35
he just sort of like drops in some randomness in L Ron, you know, they're they're meeting they're talking and they kind of want
Collin 1:18:45
just some, you know,
Brandon 1:18:48
some info, right? They want to know about this. They're looking for some help from L Ron, because he knows a lot of the history and all this stuff. Right? And they want to know about like the map. They're going there to get the learn about the map, right? Because they know L Ron knows things. And they have this map that Gandalf had that he got from Thorens dad or whatever. And so they need the map to be read in so that's what that's why they're going here. And you know, they get there. They're kind of hanging out and they're talking and stuff. And then L Ron just dropped some bombs on him. Right? And if you like, there's a couple of passages in here that again, I clicked on, too, because they're really weird. And they're just like, oh, yeah, he just like starts talking about the swords. You know, they show him the sword. Cave and blah, blah. And then all Ron just casually says like, oh, yeah, these were made in Gondolin for the goblin war. Now, that's a big deal, right? Like Gondolin doesn't exist anymore. During this time. The book kind of gone, right. There's a whole there's a whole reason for that, but that's fine. But like Gondolin just come back. broad knowledge for those who maybe haven't read The Silmarillion Gondolin is like the hidden city. Right? It's hidden in a ring of mountains away from the great evil of Morgoth. So that the elves can fight against him. Right? It's like their station, like where they launch attacks on the evil of Morgoth. In like, in his in his strongholds.
Collin 1:20:23
Okay. So saying that this you know, the sword that Gandalf is, has now this
Brandon 1:20:35
Glamdring the foe hammer that the king of Gondolin once wore, right? turned on, is the king of Gondolin turned on is a big deal. Okay, like it's a huge deal in the First Age. He, like he built Gondolin he fought against Morgoth until he was betrayed, right? And so this is like, this is a base important person, not just the token legendarium Right. Like
Collin 1:21:07
he he's a big deal.
1:21:09
But who was the who was the goblin cleaver or Chryst nature who's Yeah, Chris Who's that?
Brandon 1:21:15
That's the Thorin sort of the he has right also forged in Gondolin during the First Age, so again, this is like this is I feel like this is total I don't know when this part was added, you know, but this feels like token again, you just having this like massive history just in his brain. And he just sort of like spits a little bit of it out here. Right because there's a whole huge backstory there. And again, this is the thing that makes like Middle Earth feel like such a big thing is he just sort of casually drops this and you know, the casual reader is just gonna be like
Collin 1:21:50
okay, that sounds important. And then
Brandon 1:21:53
if you dive into this a lot more you like, Oh, that is that's really important. Right You know, like Paragon again, big deal,
Collin 1:22:04
you know, but yeah, so they do that
Brandon 1:22:07
they get the sword thing we talked about the sword stuff and then they just like Oh, also by the way,
1:22:13
you know, just happen to
Collin 1:22:15
have this little you know, Matt Perino here
Brandon 1:22:21
well check that out to while you're talking about stuff.
1:22:27
Oh, and then I love how this is again just this suddenly the the moon letters right they get dropped real quick of like, oh, yeah, their moon letters here. Yeah.
Collin 1:22:43
Which which
Brandon 1:22:44
only only L Ron be able to see those you know, because he's like, you know, the coolest or whatever. But
1:22:50
yes, yes. We also learn that these are highly specific Moon letters and that they can only be read under the light of the moon under which they were written initially, which is yes, not helpful at all.
Brandon 1:23:06
Well, I mean, except for you know, the bit of deus ex machina that oh there have it's just happens to be today What do you know about it and what a coincidence right now
1:23:20
what this would leave is I don't know why they didn't do this of just the obsessively and all he had to do was put in put a little note in here like and thereafter every night Bilbo open the map to look at it right like that's that's what I do. Right? Like Well, I don't know what's gonna be here or not so you at least have to look at it exactly
Brandon 1:23:45
it's it's a really weird like oh yeah, he's like oh anyway hey just happens to be because you know, we got to advance a lot and just sit around here and wait for days and days like oh, well we got to read them next month. Back later right like right can't really really do that I kind of feels the story you know, so like,
Collin 1:24:07
it's got to be a little bit silly. You learn some things These runes tell them
Brandon 1:24:21
that you must stand by the gravestone when the thrush knocks at the setting sun with the last light of during his day will shine upon the keyhole
Collin 1:24:34
and to his Bilbo goes quiet luckily Thorin happens
Brandon 1:24:41
to know who these people are
1:24:47
yes, and we get more during the day during the day, right? Yeah, we get
Brandon 1:24:53
to know then we get a little bit more like backdrop knowledge like oh during is the father of the you know the long beards, which is one of the dwarf clans, there are several of these scattered around the long beards being one of them. And he was like the founding member of that whole thing. It goes back to how the dwarves are created. And that was again a long story, but again, the story that Tolkien has written, right, that is in Sumerian, like that is there that is like a very old piece of tokenised tokenism. Okay, and he just again, again, this is him just sort of reaching in he's like, oh, yeah, this guy, blob drops him in this store. Because that whole thing is already flushed out and written down on 20 million scraps of paper in a binder somewhere. Just casually puts it in this. Oh, yeah. Darren? Yeah, we know.
1:25:54
Just gets dropped again. Exactly. Yeah.
Collin 1:25:57
Yeah. Yeah, that's
Brandon 1:26:01
again, that's, that's why his world feels so flushed out. Because it is. And he's, even though, when this book came out, none of the readers would know about that.
Collin 1:26:10
Right? None of them. That's what you got to
Brandon 1:26:13
think about to like, the fact that he was able to just do that. And like, leave these kind of breadcrumbs around to make everything seem full and inviting and like a real actual fleshed out place. Yeah. Is, is really interesting. Because again, in 1937, when people read this for the first time, there is no Silmarillion. Right? There is no anything else by Tolkien out there anywhere.
Collin 1:26:37
Right. So
Brandon 1:26:41
the only person that would know what that is, is like, maybe his wife, you know?
1:26:48
Or in this case, L Ron, right. Christopher is
Brandon 1:26:50
other signs, right? Like?
1:26:53
Yeah, but it's so nice, because it does feel so full, because it's kind of like a, like an
Collin 1:26:59
internal internal proof. Like an internal proof of, of the text itself to like, No, this is legitimate here, because look in the story. You know, somebody it talks about something older, like this person has a history going way far back and knows a lot of things. So it's kind of it does, just suddenly doesn't feel and I'm not going to use that word, like doesn't fill in anything. But all of a sudden, you see just the depth of everything that's there.
Brandon 1:27:31
Yeah, exactly. Right. And it's just like a little, little like bread crumb. Oh, yeah. There you go. There's that is For You, For Later case I ever get this thing published,
Collin 1:27:40
you'll need that. Boom, right. So it's
Brandon 1:27:44
just very cool. I just like finding those little nuggets just like laying around, especially in this because the Hobbit is again, it's kind of weird, a little bit from his other stuff. But still seeing the he was he had so much of this on his mind. And he was able to connect it in ways that, you know, maybe he didn't even realize he was doing at first but
1:28:05
well, because in relation to his other writings that will come later after this. This is a very again, in relation to other writings.
Collin 1:28:15
This is very small scale. Like this is Oh, yeah, right. Like that's that's the other thing about this, if like the stakes of this one, are not very high. In relation to like,
1:28:30
eternal age battle against good evil, like dark pieces encroaching kind of stuff. This it's very much a these people on this adventure doing this thing, because they want it like it really is like, which is nice, because you've all that the whole time you're navigating through this, even in this, this chapter, not a whole lot happens. But it the curtain gets pulled back briefly, certain aspects with that shows you like, a lot more going
Collin 1:28:59
on, or has gone on. Yeah, it's really weird to think about that. Like,
Brandon 1:29:05
whenever this was written, he had zero plans on writing, like the Lord
Collin 1:29:12
of the Rings. Right? Like none.
Brandon 1:29:16
And then he had to go, you know, and that's why a little bit of this is edited later, they go back after he's written and he goes, Oh, because Tolkien was always going back and like, making things like, match up. You know, he was really obsessed with that to make everything kind of mesh together really well. So you know, the first version of The Hobbit doesn't really mesh with the Lord of the Rings. But he went back in and he kind of tinkered with it and added some stuff, especially one of the chapters that's coming up. We're going to read for next time. Yeah, that is one of the most heavily changed chapters. We can talk about that later. But you know, so the fact that he was able to find Gonna pull all this off kind of even by accident. And like, take what he did writing here and then, like, translate it forward. And hey, and when he was able to make the Lord of the Rings, like and connect that story to this plus his greater legendary, it's really, really impressive the scope that he was able to think on while he was writing stuff. Like it's just, it's, it's incredible, like the scope of, of his like vision for this is it's just insane. Right. And that's one of the things that like, if you are talking for hours, and you quickly have like, the scope here is, is very different than most other works. You know what I mean? Like, it's incredible. So then the fact that he was able to just like sort of drop some of this in The Hobbit kind of by accident is
Collin 1:30:59
really cool. Ya know?
1:31:02
There's a lot yeah, how he pulls it all together. I agree. It's neat to see this being woven.
Collin 1:31:08
For sure. So, and yeah,
1:31:11
we end with our adventures setting off again. And I also like I will say,
Collin 1:31:19
as I say, like, as the story progresses, the themes start popping up more and more as like, what's the greatest thing that they're facing? Of like, I was like,
1:31:36
Oh, God, this is gonna be really hard for me to articulate but how names or places or things just start like they may be mentioned one time and then like the the frequency with which things start being mentioned at the closer we get to them in the story increases, which I really love. foreshadowing that foreshadowing. But like Blake, winking and nodding to things that are, right, yeah, priming you Yes. That's what I'm trying to say here as my as a pible. Through these words, like, yeah, you start getting more primed. As the Avengers encounter these things, you get more and more primed for the next for the
Collin 1:32:10
next thing. Yeah, it's kind of like, they're kind of, you know,
Brandon 1:32:17
yeah, they're getting you ready for what's happening next. And so it's it's a very interesting way to do that. But, but yes, we'll see a lot more of that pretty soon to it. Yes. Yeah.
1:32:25
Right. Yeah. Yeah, that was chapter three. So let's, we'll write these on a scale of No, we won't have like one to 14.
Collin 1:32:36
Burglar burr hobbits? No. We had one. It's just these to me were a lot of these were a lot of exposition. A lot of world building has been going on here and a really well done way. And moving us, Eric with some from the gyro, right? It's not right. It's not clunky. And and the whole point of chapters two and three are getting us as far away from the Shire as we can. That's basically what we're doing. Like, and we're standing
Brandon 1:33:10
graphically, we have come quite far. Right? Like, yes. Rivendale is very far away from the Shire. So that is at least welcome. Because if you, you know, again, this book, you know, the map here of Middle Earth is kind of people don't know about it really, in the you know, there's a bit of copy in the back of my book here. But it doesn't show you where the Shire is, but it's, it's very far away from revenue. We had this kind of go through a lot of nothing. And then now, we can spend the time going for it from here until we get to our final destination. There's a lot of stuff to travel through. Yeah, so that at least we kind of get through the boring parts because it's just sort of implied that they're just like, oh, yeah, it's just like fields and little villages and what Whatever, man and then now now we're getting to the the interesting part, like we've been going for a while, we've been doing a lot of stuff, but also it was boring and not interesting yet so kind of like skip ahead, skip a bit and then get to the good part. So that can be appreciated least Yes. Yep. I didn't need to hear about other authors would have written about like every step of the journey through every field and like, river crossing that they came upon the people by the characters. Yeah, it would have taken that time to like agonizingly build out like, tell you all about all of the characters, but there's like how many more about how long or how does Bombur view the world? What's his background?
Collin 1:34:45
But how does Glenn like I don't Yeah, I mean, yeah, how
Brandon 1:34:52
does oil and glowing feel about this? Right? Like, I don't really care so like, not to say they're not interesting people, but like, that's not the part. That's not the point of the story. Right? You don't I mean, the point of the story is going to the mountain and defeating a dragon. And the fact that we didn't have to sit through 112 pages of, like, learning about every single divorce backstory before we got to Rivendale
Collin 1:35:22
is really great. Because that would make this like, not interesting. And you would lose a lot of the
Brandon 1:35:30
important bit because like, what Tolkien is, his his scope is very broad. But like, he's still like, even when you read like a similar alien, like, it's not really there's not a lot of like filler, right? It's not just like, I like random stuff. You know, it's like very ugly, we know where we're going. And we're going to drive the point there.
1:35:52
But he doesn't very economically. I will say, Yeah, that's a good way to say that. But not in a not in a boring way. Not in in an economy way of like, oh, like an economy car or a bare bones approach. But yeah, and efficiently an efficient way to move the story. And really, I'm not saying that really move the story, like you point out earlier, it's the whole point is to move the characters geographically away, like we've, we've got to go to add some scope and depth to this of a big world. We're exploring this with Bilbo, and we're learning a lot. And that's the whole point of going comfortable. Chapter Two is basically like, forget all of that. We're gone. And then the Rivendale is, is that last really kickoff point of from here to the end. It's like, okay, there's a lot that now it's getting really hard, but we've got to get way away from this comfort zone. Way of way, way away from the familiar to this little gateway before we keep going.
Brandon 1:36:46
Yeah, exactly. So that yeah, that's just I feel that's it. Well, I think it's really good. Other people would have like pointed that out a lot, but I'm glad he did. Anyway.
1:37:02
So we will tackle four and five next time. Indeed, and keep keep going.
Brandon 1:37:12
Yes, I'm excited because the next two are good champions. differ. Yeah, right. Yeah, it's probably Yeah, I mean, overhead Underhill is where like, we get kicked off a lot of stuff. And then chapter five is like one of the most famous chapters. Right, I would say because that's riddles in the dark. We're not there yet. We don't know. We haven't really haven't. Nobody knows. We're telling you the names of the chapters we're going to read.
1:37:41
But yes, there's a lot to look forward to.
Brandon 1:37:43
And for the listeners for the listeners who are definitely following along and reading along with us.
1:37:49
Exactly. See that. That's how we go. Okay, well, until next time. Yeah, opposite. What's the opposite of a boy? Yo, a. Nope, that doesn't. I'll figure this out. What do you Oh, yeah. What did parents say when they say by? Argh, I don't know. I don't know. Okay. And on that bombshell. Love you. Bye.