foster shelter for couches

We hit the end of the school year slog and discuss Brandon's all-time favorite show ever, "Curse of Oak Island" as it relates to iconography. We spend a considerable time discussing what it's like introducing megafauna back to the landscape and the impacts to the ecosystem. Double PLUS.... couch corner is BACK.

• End of year slog…

• Menu diving

• Secretly 87

• Iconography

• Curse of Oak Island

• Silver in a hole

• Science fiction stories and nuclear disaster

• Driving

• Rocky Falls 

• Headcuts

• Thoughts on elk in Missouri

• To when are we restoring?

• A leading megafauna question….

• Pleistocene Park to save the permafrost

• Cold adapted elephant

• Miming the May Pole

• Couch corner

• Foster shelter for couches

• Back to the office

Check out our other episodes: ohbrotherpodcast.com

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A VERY ROUGH TRANSCRIPT OF THE EPISODE

PROVIDED BY OTTER.AI

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

people, elk, area, landscape, road, levee, aaron, day, weird, true, introduced, driving, thought, talking, megafauna, state, permafrost, couch, large, missouri

SPEAKERS

Collin, Aaron

Collin  00:04

Welcome to Oh, brother, a podcast three brothers, trying to figure it all out with your hosts, Brandon. column. And Aaron. On this week's show. Foster shelter for couches.

00:19

Hello?

00:24

Hello.

00:28

Oh,

Collin  00:32

boy. very tiring. Oh, no. Yeah, let's say like end of school like slog, right? Right. We're done with all our testing and we're still like doing stuff but the kids are like, stuff. It's fine. Don't worry about it. Yeah. So it's a whole thing. So, you know,

01:03

it's very

Collin  01:05

Field Day is Friday. I don't like field day and

01:10

Oh, no Ray.

01:16

Also that time

Collin  01:18

guide as well. It is Revenge of the fifth. So you know, these things do come around and back is true. My lame Star Wars joke for missing May the fourth? Right? to loud, loud, lame. I tell my kids only bad jokes here in my class, because I'll say random things and that's what we like. Yep. Only bad jokes here. Sorry. I don't know what you were expecting. But yeah.

01:51

How's Aaron? Oh, parents good. Been a work week. So Mr. Timberlake himself. exhausted. What?

Collin  02:03

Aaron's name is it's gonna be may be May.

02:07

It's Oh, okay. Yeah.

Collin  02:10

I missed that at the first time. So I was

Aaron  02:12

gonna try to change it once a month. So,

Collin  02:15

I mean, you have been changing once a month. A humorous. So I got. I remember how to do that. So like, you're very impressed that you?

Aaron  02:31

It pops up every time because it'll be like, hey, you want to do this over? Yeah. So my, every time I log on it, it'll be like thing like, hey, do you want to do you know, calling over Wi Fi, or wireless or whatever? Or Wi Fi, it'll be like, George, change your name.

Collin  02:53

Right? Cuz I just clicked the link in the email every time it's like, on my laptop. It's like, I've done it once. And it was like, Yes. And so I don't know how you do this magic.

Aaron  03:06

Or somewhere in settings. I don't

Collin  03:08

know. I don't ever mess with settings. It's too dangerous to delve that deep. Right? You end up looking to find a name evil, and then you can't set it back. Can't set it back to how it was before.

03:21

Then you'll be in like some important meeting and

03:26

no, yeah.

Collin  03:31

You'll be the cat lawyer at that point. Not a Castro. I promise I'm not a Catholic. Yes, obviously.

03:42

Whenever.

Collin  03:44

This is a very random side topic, but talking about menu diving, my friend and I used to, like steal each other's phones and change the languages on Oh, no.

04:00

Oh my gosh.

Collin  04:03

I had to figure out how do I put put this phone in like German. Try to remember how to go back to the video office. used to do he used to do that it was all time. Just go to the menu and change language. Blam see how how difficult it was to go back and do it the other way. So you're changing all the exciting languages in there. I imagine now if you did that, it would be much many more languages to choose from, right? We just had like Spanish and French and German by but now it's like you can do all kinds of things we used to do. Back in the 90s your phone couldn't do anything else. We had to really use it ourselves. Very long amounts of time, like, restaurant or something just like swap, steals movies, phone and switched language. Right? Yeah. Now watch him watch him get back. Like, like, I played this snake game on my phone way too much. That's literally the only thing I can do. So now I'm gonna change its language to Portuguese. Ah, enjoy.

05:27

So it's good. It's

Collin  05:30

also a test of like, How good are those little icons they put next to the menu? Right? Can you really tell what the heck those things mean? Yeah,

05:40

you know, good. Can you figure out what that means? by just using the homie icon to navigate

Collin  05:50

that I can. I can I gruffy is just insane. I remember two anecdotes on that. I don't know if you guys remember. But when in Top Gear, when James May interviewed the lady who came up with all the typography and the for the road network, road signs of like how to make it look simplified at x miles an hour that they were cutting forward to make sure that you could, it was legible. And then on the other side of that is I remember listening to a radio broadcast or a radio broadcast, a podcast clip, but I'm secretly 87. about them coming up with the iconography or toxic or nuclear waste disposal sites. And how they were so concerned of like this waste is going to sit there for 1000s of years. And we don't know who or what's going to come after us. And so how do we label these sites as dangerous without and this is what they're reporting without peeking their interest and curiosity enough so that they'll continue to dig right.

07:06

Yeah, so I've, I've actually read a bit about that before, too. And that is a fascinating

07:12

topic,

Collin  07:14

in my opinion, and there's also some good sci fi to be written there. I think. So if any anybody else people who are better writers than me out there, here's your free sci fi. story idea time. Like, yes. So have you read about this stuff, where they like what they think about, like designing a landscape that looks like foreboding? Yes. Like, yeah, decimating the landscape and just making it

Aaron  07:41

look like,

07:42

foreboding and bad. And just so like,

Collin  07:45

you don't want to be there? Yes.

07:49

I've heard about

Collin  07:51

somebody had a crazy idea of like, like breeding cats that glow in the presence of radiation, so that you just know, when you see a glowing cat that like you don't go well, in their thought was their thought was with that, like, let's say 1000 generations down the road, you don't know, you know, your the memory of why the cap below, it may not be there. But you know that when cap below it's bad, right? And that they were basing that on some of the research that they were doing of, of group behavior, where they would, it was one monkey, and every time the monkey grabbed something like everybody was shocked. And so the group learned that when you touch the banana, you get shocked. And even when they removed that original monkey, the group taught it, every other monkey that they introduced as an undo it did not do it. And so I know they were kind of basing the whole like, well, what if we just had glowy? cats? And if you ignored that you'd kind of Yeah, that didn't died, right? Yes. Well, the thing that goes along with that is the other part of I don't know if it's connected to that, or slightly independent of like, creating some sort of like, this is where your science fiction writers come in handy, right? The, like, some sort of like, yeah, that that group thing or like some sort of like, almost modeled on like a religious behavior, about that, or about that area, that it gets passed down almost for come for gloriously. Right. That kind of way, instead of just like, like you're talking about, like, you don't exactly remember why you're not supposed to do that. But you just know that you're not supposed to do that, kind of to keep that story going kind of like almost like an order of mugs or something. It's like it's their dream world traditions that sort of help. Yeah, they say like, don't go to this nuclear waste site. And of course, the science fiction story that ends in my brain about that is like, in like, you know, 1500 years. This monastic order is around telling a tale of like, why not to go there? and somebody's like, but what if I did go there, right, and then they don't, they think because they don't believe it, right? They don't believe it anymore. And then they go He like causes lung cancer man. Right? That would be really cool. Like sci fi story, I think. But the other option is that you like, I think the one that was it, the one in Finland, this is their plan, they're going to do that. They're going to bury it all on that thing. And then they're going to completely erase any trace that ever existed on the surface. And leave it alone. And like,

10:27

forget it.

Collin  10:29

So they're going to bury this thing, like deep in the ground, and seal it off. And then basically erase the trace on the surface. And just make it like a forest.

10:40

Right now that Yeah,

Collin  10:43

so like, that's the plan, like, well, we could leave all these signs. And that's talking about like, well, well, that might actually make it more interesting to people. So if we just forget about it, and seal it up, seal it up, hopefully good enough, that they don't find it again. Just leave it there. Yeah. But that also has its own dangers, because what if they do find it?

11:08

Yeah. And they're just like, oh, man,

Collin  11:09

there's this crazy thing down there. We should go open it up. And Blam. My.

11:14

Hey, well, this gets toxic radiation as your your, your

Collin  11:21

channel show the island or whatever. Oh, man. Yeah. Right. See, like, somebody tried to bury that and like, forget it, and like make it so that nobody would find it again. And, and is there and now they're still taking it out? Yeah. The season finale was last night again. Holy cow. Oh, my goodness. That's crazy. They ran. So they they season recap for the curse of Oak Island. Ladies and gentlemen, for anyone out there who's obsessed as I am about this. They were digging around in this Swamp Thing. And they just found like a paved stone path.

11:58

And they're like, what,

Collin  12:02

and so most of the season was archaeologists just like following it and tried to figure out what the heck this thing is. And there's like artifacts in there, like pieces of pottery that are smashed in there and like ox shoes that have been thrown while they were carrying things up and down this little road that they made, that was completely buried. And it's not written about in any records that they have found about the island. There's no mention of it. And yet here it is. And it's like, they're all like,

Aaron  12:33

what the heck is this? What did they

Collin  12:40

What did they have anything? Was that was that the year? Was that the season finale? Where they found the road? or What did they know that was all season the season finale is they ran? They were one of the guys was like, Hey, I got this idea. What if, because they've been drilling all these test wells and stuff. So they have all these wells that go down in and hit water level. And the guy was like, uh, actually, he's like, I have an idea. I'm gonna go down, I'm gonna snag some water samples for some of these. And I'm going to test for trace elements and see if anything pops on it that shouldn't be there. Right? Like, looking about like, okay, let's pretend there is a treasure down under this thing is precious metals will show up in the water sample, especially corrosive metals like silver, and stuff like that. Because they corrode, trace evidence will show up in in the water. Right? So he's like, well, let's

13:36

just do that.

Collin  13:38

And I was like, that makes a weird amount of sense for this to happen, like 15 seasons of this show. Why no thing? Right. So anyway, they did that. And so on the season finale, they're like, Yeah, we got the results back. And they were showing it it's like copper, zinc, silver. And the amount of silver on this tracing is like, enormous. And he's like,

14:05

yeah, that's, that's a lot.

Collin  14:08

And one of the guys goes, well, so like, if it was treasure, hypothetically, how much silver would are we talking about to get these amounts? Is it like a handful or like a roomful? And he goes a roomful and they'll just stare at each other like, like, joking, like,

14:32

yeah. So it was very shocking, like, like, Wait, what?

Collin  14:44

And then of course, the conspiratorial mind will start roving and saying, like, that's just the silver. Yeah, if there's other treasure with the silver, it won't show up in that analysis because things like gold, don't corrode

15:01

So if it's

Collin  15:04

like other stuff, or like, gemstones won't show up in that. Right? It's like, wait a minute that Hold on. What is that? Yeah, yeah, there. Yeah. So that they're planning for next time next season, when they come back in like the summer or spring when they can dig again. It's like to run that to like us do that some more and some of the wells, and then kind of like, see where it's concentrated the most. And then kind of make that their new target. Area focus.

15:38

But that was the thing. I was like, Wait. What?

Collin  15:45

That's crazy.

15:46

Yeah, it was rather like, What in the world? And again, yeah, you're right.

Collin  15:52

This is one of those things like that show is just it's so tantalizing would be the word, I believe, cuz just like that can't be anything. And then they find like, some really random thing. Like, what? Why is that? They're like, what is what that has, there's no reason that should exist like that. Until you just get very curious about these things. And I can be curious, because I'm not the one spending millions of dollars excavating sections on an island in the middle. Yeah, neither did they, until they were they have they amassed a fortune TV series. That's true. That's true. Well, one of the brothers him and his business partner they do. They're like, a, they own an oil and gas company. Yeah. Yeah. And so all this drilling equipment, you know, yeah, they have drilling experience and extra capital just sitting around. Okay.

16:56

Yeah. But yes, that lasted yesterday. So funny. You should bring it up, you know,

Collin  17:03

over in a hole in the ground? Like,

17:07

what the heck? Yes. But,

Collin  17:15

again, no iconography on that island. They tried to forget it. And it didn't want it and somebody found a random thing. And they're like, well, that's curious. So again, that'd be a very excellent science fiction story, even if they abandoned it, all right. And then somebody goes down, and they open the radioactive vault, and then blood,

17:34

terrible things happen. Or it could be like,

Collin  17:39

it's the only folk memory they have is like that. It's a great power. And then somebody's like, really sick, because they think it's gonna be like, something they can use, but it's actually just like, radiation that murdered kills everyone. Right? And so that would, that would make it even better, right? So be cool of, you know, being used for evil. And so you're trying to race against the clock to prevent them from doing it. Because you believe in the last of the monastic order of like, it's a great power, but it's terrible and destroys everything. Yes. But all they know is it's a great power. And they're like, well, we can't hide a great power. We could use it and we could do all this stuff with. Oh, and then like, yeah, okay, boy. It's actually a bad grade. Yeah, exactly. Like Bormio style, right. Let me tell you this other story. Yeah. Well, it'd be cool. You had like the feature setting and then it would race against a clock of like, you know, they're, they shouldn't be hiding this secret power away. We should be using it because they don't actually know what it is. Right? They just know it's a power quotes. So

18:48

then, all kinds of things happen. And then

Collin  18:53

listeners of the podcast can look forward to the audio drama of Yeah, we could write an audio. Man, it's beautiful. Coming to your listening ears this

19:03

fall. Okay, maybe don't put a timeline on it. That's nerve racking.

Collin  19:09

Coming to your ears. Maybe.

19:11

Maybe

Collin  19:12

that would be together though. That'd be kind of fun listener submissions. Available for the writing group writing project. Here we go. Oh, yeah. We pass it to somebody else. We just go around a circle. And then we read it on here.

19:29

Yes, perfect.

Collin  19:35

Just make a disclaimer. Don't be like Orson Welles. Here follows an exercise in creative writing.

19:44

And go Yes, I like this plan.

Collin  20:05

What do you been up to this week? Calling? I have been driving an awful lot. Yeah, so last week, had a biologist call and had some concerns. Down in Peck Ranch, you're in theory. And that area is four and a half hours away from where I live. So, I worked a full day Monday, and then drove down to West Plains. stay the night and then got up early Tuesday drove the additional hour from West Plains it takes to get into the site. And yeah, and then drove around backgrounds looking at a bunch of different thing over the rocky falls for a little bit, see that place? I don't know if you've seen that. I have never heard of that. I have not guarantee you. I'm going to send you listeners won't get this. You have to Super. I'm going to you will like this. Only call it into posting it on Instagram. Okay. Here we go. You have probably seen rocky falls. And Brandon, you will like it because there is you will like it because there's theology involved. I do love geology. A, specifically a massive slug of volcanic eruption occurred. And that basically blocked off a frost stream when it erupted. And over the time over the years, everything else has been eroded except for this big slug of volcanic tear. And I don't think it probably erupted across the stream. I imagined this dream came later as well. But yes, so so rhyolite. So it's all rhyolite Oh, isn't really yeah, it's rylo. So it's actual. And then yeah, the stream comes over in his eroded everything down around it, but still jutting out through this the falls here if the falls are rhyolite for the Ozarks, and it's really, really neat to see in person. I had never seen it before. So I had heard about it. And then whenever I saw it, I was like I have seen this in a magazine or like on a calendar page. Four. I don't think I have but this is cool. Yeah. No, it's really cool. It's it's four out of Missouri igneous rock. Right. It's very exciting. Yes. Cuz it's very old intrusions. like super old. Does. Very cool. So yeah. So it's neat to see that and to see how the landscape has shaped around this and left it right, because it doesn't road basically, you know, or

23:06

where it's much, much slower than the limestone. sandstone. Exactly. around it.

Collin  23:13

Yeah. So it's just really isn't pretty. And we were having to be there on a day where it had tons of water coming down it though it was even a bit rainy. Yeah. And that was that makes it look cooler. It does. But yeah, it wasn't rocky falls, you won't see you know, you won't see the falling bit. Right. It's, you know, I mean, the rocks. Cool. But, yeah, um, but yeah, the problems on the the lanes, the place where we were looking at, were pretty unique. The most interesting one that I took a little bit to figure out was there was a massive head cut. A big ditch was forming right next to this road. And first off when they built Peck Ranch, and started making it via drivable tour to see the elk that they were using, which Oh, you can have your own opinions on that. Anyway, they put these roads across the landscape and down basically right along river because in the Ozarks, you either build a road right next to the river or on a ridge top. And

24:16

the river when you build the next river, you'll steep in the between a lot of places.

Collin  24:20

Right people don't like driving at 78 degree angles, though. I mean, it's weird. Yeah, I know. So when you put a road across a field are down next to the river, no matter how hard you try, you will be that road will be elevated, effectively creating a small levee across the floodplain of the river. If the next thing which is where you don't want to levee Exactly. If the next thing that you do then is you go you know what, we want this to be a drivable tour to see out an elk like field. You don't have a lot of yields out here. We need to get some of these trees. Oh, right. Well flash forward 30 The years and what has happened is, the stream is coming on this Big Bend. And this area of the stream is read to the stream just so happens to be a grading, which means it's collecting sediment there that ever ever else that we were on the stream, all the sediment was gravel size or lower. And then or smaller or but at this site, these things were like four times the size of my head, we're being dropped out at this place, which means Whoa, that's all this energy just goes. blob. Yeah,

25:32

and stops in that hasn't dropped

Collin  25:34

out, that raises the stream bed and raises the surrounding area, which pulls up the water. And normally during normal floods, or normal flows, it's not that bad, you get a little bit of water there. It backs up the water until it finds the next low point, and then it bust out, cuts it out and goes across this field. Now that would be fine. If you had a healthy riparian corridor, and no levee, but you have no riparian corridors, so the water picks up speed slams into the levee, and then runs dead parallel. Yeah, levee and has the roadway timing I rode away applied. And now you have this big massive ditch that's being split open just like zipper undoing right alongside the levee the road, because that's where all of the energy is focused. And the problem is, is that the stream is going to be a grading, that's the behavior of the stream, we cannot address that. However, if we just try and stop the head cut with what was what we do is put a rock shoot in there so that it kind of self adjusts and dissipates the energy that doesn't affect any of the other, the entire side of the head issues, right? Because the energy is just going to be directed to one of those. So you just be doing non stop head cut dropping all the way along this. And it's causing other problems with us with a cause the problem is when you get a head cut, it doesn't just it lowers the bed elevation, and then it sends all of that sediment and gravel downstream, or what's directly downstream of this is a crossing. And so it's getting, it's getting a lot of gravel accumulating on this, which backed up water, which you know, you get this continuous cycle of of it trying to adjust. And now the road is like collapsing on one side and eating that a telephone pole and exposing buried wire and cable through this area. Oh, Ray. So we were talking about that yesterday in science where the exact worst place to build a levee is in the floodplain. Like it's the floodplains job to lead. Yeah. And it's in the name, right? specific scientists name things like this for a reason, right? So you know what it is. And this road was built through this tire area to see this. And it is just stream can adjust. And this is going to elevate the road like this swampy Louisiana roads, right? Where they're all just like up higher, add more money.

28:11

Yes.

Collin  28:14

So we as soon as we got on site, because I did send some walking to photos and some onsite photos, but I hadn't we could I couldn't tell her anything what was going on? Because you don't get the subtle height differences in the photo from my aerial photo, especially with like, and I'm looking at toe pose, but even toe pose don't show you exactly, yeah. Okay. Like, there is a high difference. But it's having a lot more impact here than we originally anticipated. And so got on site saw what was going on and was like, look like, Oh, no, we can't just plug this. We can't just re slope the road, because that's not gonna make the problem go away. We can't, you know, someone was like, Well, what if we, what if we put a levee further up where the water's coming out of the river and block it there. It was like, it's just gonna find the next lowest upstream of that, right? And you're, you're not going to make this river stop doing it now. It's gonna come out here. And so then we start getting into the difficult questions and conversations of, okay, we need trees back in here. Because that's why this is unzipping. And we need to have much more forested much a lot more roughness on here than just this grass and clover for the elk as food plot, which is hard because they want it open. So you can see elk. It's also hard, because as I mentioned, there's a telephone pole here. And there's one thing about electric companies and powerline companies that they their mortal enemies with our tree trees and within 30 feet of their telephone poles, right?

29:55

Yeah, no kidding. Like don't even look at our telephone. All

Collin  30:01

right down. So then, you know, so So basically, we were like, Look, we're gonna write up our recommendations up to a point. But we have to bring in more people on this discussion because this is now active area management, wildlife management, design and development people, we need to bring them on in now. It was just a head cut moving through a field, I'd tell you to throw the rock chute in there and be done with it. But because now we're having to take into account inventory and other management considerations or the property, it gets really hairy really fast. So it was pretty to see. And it'll probably entail a few more trips down there, which is fine. But it was just the like, like, Oh, this is a big area and that

30:45

wonderful. Sounds exciting.

Collin  30:51

Yeah. So then, yeah. So and then I got back. I was I was up at seven yesterday on the Tuesday, and I didn't get back home in my house until eight o'clock last night. And then and then tomorrow, we're driving back down to Springfield. To go to work.

31:13

There. Oh, wow. Yeah.

Collin  31:18

Right. So but it was fun. It was fun. It's really crazy. I love that area. I love being next to that, you know by the current all that all that place down there. So it was Yeah, beautiful. But long day, long day. I want to know now I'm curious. For to tangibly write to this. What are the thoughts on Missouri out? There thing? Yeah, but you said you were very, you seem very not enthusiastic about alkanes. Oh, oh, no, no, I am. I am all for this is Collin speaking not speaking for anybody with a good disclaimer. No, bring on the elk. Bring on the black bear bring on the Pumas. I have a hard time with then trying to create a driving tour for that. Okay, gotcha. Because at that point, why not just throw one out and make a petting zoo? Right? Like, Oh, yeah. What do you like? Was that exotic animal paradise or that weird place? Yeah. Right. Because what what are you even doing like in while in the crazy thing is, and this is the this is the part that just blew me away. We were down there at 9am on a Tuesday

32:46

at Peck ridge. And

32:49

I probably about 14 cars drove through. And each time they stop and ask us, where are the elk

32:58

today? Have you seen the owl?

Collin  33:01

I'm being very loud. They're not here? Very well, not right now. They're not calling right now. It's not quite right. But they are. People are so excited to have l to CL and to try to access to them. But it just it rubs me the wrong way, that we're turning them into a spectacle of like here, you can drive to stay in your car and drive around these trails to see. Right. That's just I don't like that. I don't think that's true. And but I understand why they did it. Because it's raising awareness. It's giving people access to them. It's showcasing the work that they're doing and helping people have a bit more connection and understanding what's going on. I tourism dollars it's tourism. And it's but the department is free act this right you don't have to pay to get into the park. Well, yeah, but but right the area's benefit from that, to have that and it just it's I think about how up in Yellowstone it's a little different. Like the driving tour is going from place to place and he just happened to see bison everywhere. That's true right? laying on the road. If Yellowstone pitch themselves as a driving bison tour, it just came fair changes the whole feeling of in purpose of what's going on. So what you're saying is more elk That way you won't need to drive into like be in your friend or elk. Absolutely true. Well cuz i know i know this it's I don't want Aaron's thoughts on this too as a outdoors enthusiast, right. Like it was very weirdly and it's weird to think about this but it isn't historic elk range. Right? Yeah. Yeah. So like, everything about today should be here, because they were here and now are gone. So the sort of, there is an ecological niche that is not

35:15

being filled in some way. Right. And that's not great for the whole thing. You know,

Collin  35:23

for the the health of the ecosystem at large, even though Missouri does not look the same as when there were elk here before, but like they are supposed to be.

35:35

So like,

35:37

is it a good thing to bring them back?

Aaron  35:40

That's my question. Right? When we think Aaron, um, so hunting elk is, is now if you're looking at purely just for, like, you know, the industry aspect. elk is like a, you know, considered big game, it's a very, you know, prized kind of hunt. And so, you know, definitely bringing that tourists dollars for it. I mean, I don't, I mean, I kind of depends, like, I, it's super cool. And I was actually I enrolled myself or my friend in an elk hunt in here in Oklahoma. They do like a lottery system where they draw, and you get to get drawn, you get to have an opportunity to, you know, take a buddy and you and go hunt. And it's, it's very restricted. And, but it's, it's a unique way to bring in kind of that extra bucks, no point no pun intended, went on with, with, with 100 with, like, with hunting. And so like, I see it, I need, you know, middle again, as far as you know, environmental impact study kind of ordeal, but I can definitely see it kind of being a bonus, you know, it's something that was already hasn't had in a while, as far as you know, definitely as far as like the hunting season goes for elk. And so I think something like that is very cool and very unique. Because not that many states have an elk season of some sort. So, I think for us are, you know, for Missourians to be able to get that opportunity now and bring back that population environmentally, is this something fascinating and unique it's in that non policy tab so I think it's cool but again, I haven't I haven't done any impact studies or anything like that so I don't know as far as you know what they would have effect on but if you want something that's you know cool that an elk is definitely you know that that outlook I guess

Collin  38:11

yeah definitely yeah and they're like they're very striking like when you see when Yeah, whoa, cuz I can like remember the first time I saw that was like holy cow what is that monster saying right. And I will say that the department gets a ton of criticism for the elk reintroduction as being a money grab right of like well now they charge for something where now they can do that or like now down with the new bear season right these bags same thing of of the only reason you want them here you can make money on this as though

38:43

I didn't put the bears there they just showed up

Collin  38:46

players that literally just showed unless you believe the conspiracy theories that we were bringing them in from Colorado and secretly releasing them but

38:55

that sounds like more work

Collin  38:58

they're just they're just here now so I am I'm I come at this from from a conservation So again, this gets at the the eternal debate between conservation and preservation. Yeah, but you know Leopold and name is escaping me right now. Oh, gosh, what's his name? Oh, this is he wrote

39:26

Oh, all I want to say low because that right?

39:30

is a reason that

Collin  39:31

no joke john hear me. Oh, yes. So Yogi Berra was definitely more of a preservationist in Leopold was a conservationist have. I come at it and go, look, they were here, if there's a way for us to have them back in a reasonable way. Why not? Because there are billing in each and if you look at the places in Missouri for where you could reintroduce elk. Those are kind of the best place to start. Dude, that's true, right? We're population densities of humans are insanely like, like, shockingly low. And yeah, where where it actually still is relatively, like, Where? What how it used to be right. I mean, obviously with some of the massive caveat here, but yeah, all the agriculture, right, yeah. Agriculture is big. There are but but there are also huge swaths of contiguous forest, just like nothing. Yeah, Nothing. Absolutely nothing. And tons of protected areas. If you look at maps of state, federal and natural areas and conservation areas, and whatever, like, most of it is in the Ozarks and in southwest Missouri, right. So

Aaron  40:47

yeah, that's true.

Collin  40:48

I go, Yeah. Like it if we can, if we can demonstrate that we can. They can be self sustaining, right? I would never want to be in a situation where we find ourselves in a lot of like, Trump parks, where you go, yeah, trouts cancer, your child can't survive here. But we're continue to release them for sport, right, like I have. Yeah, yeah. Again, things that rubbed me the wrong way. But if like, if we could have a self sustaining population that's healthy, that's doing well and that is kept down, that should be done that that is, that is a good use of our time and our resource.

41:31

Yeah, that,

Collin  41:32

I guess the follow up questions, that is, is a lot you hear a lot of people arguing about like, just this is just conservation only in general, right about like, you know, we should put it back to how it was, you know, I mean, they kind of say that they argue of like, Oh, we need to re establish the way that it used to be. But the question becomes, like, when are you talking about? Yeah, because ecologically that matters a lot. Right, like, when in time, are you speaking? Right? Like, because there are there are big differences, you know, and there are things that have been gone for very long amounts of time in certain areas,

42:27

that, you know,

Collin  42:31

their their impact is still being their absence is still being felt, you know, and there are things going on, it's short time, and then that's a different kind of thing. So, when are you talking about? Well, yeah, you know, this gets at the whole Jurassic Park question, right of like it, should we go that far? Like, do we try and bring back, you know, the giant slot so that we can have more Osage orange across the landscape? Like what obviously, yes, that's what No. Well, I mean, this, this is I will be leading you to a megaphone a question, actually. Because, you know, when we, when we we've talked jokingly before about like the the hippos in Colombia,

Aaron  43:09

right? Like, it's kind of funny

Collin  43:12

that they exist there. It's weird. And it's strange. But like, at a certain point in the past, there were large megafauna, like llama things in the river there. Yeah. And that that thing has been gone for so long. And the hippo is like doing that job on accident. Now, kind of, its meaner, and it wants to like eat you face off if you get close to it. But like it's doing that same job. So there's arguments for both sides of like, we got to get these hippos out of here, because they're weird, invasive species, and they shouldn't be in Colombia. And on the other side, there's the well actually hold on. Well, that's at the heart of I had an instructor who totally argued that, that as long as a niche was being filled it It didn't matter what was filling what it was. Yeah, exactly, no, she just totally flat out like the niches being filled, which means that ecosystem service and the ecosystem web is more complete than if it wasn't there. So regardless of whether it is a quote, unquote, invasive and even that term, right, invasive, exotic, whatever you throw at that, like each one of those means different things. So what Yes, I might, but like, whether it was introduced as death, another way introduced species versus exotic versus an invasive, invasive typically means it is detrimental to whether it's an introduced species, or not, or a native species, as long as not fair, as long as it's performing the same kind of service. So yeah, if you look at, you know, I think many people might argue, okay, right. So the elk weren't there. But we have a very healthy population of whitetail deer. Why would we need You know, and like, they're both cervid. They're both somewhat doing the same thing. Why would you use them? Well, the population of whitetail deer doesn't need to be as large. This issue is too big. Right? Big. They need a competition in there. Yeah. But I do find it more in line with the thinking that, that if you have a function that is being left open, if there's a way to fill it, but this, this, obviously is problems of like, you don't want to be just introducing species to introduce them because you think it's going to fill a niche because we know historically how that goes. Yes. The cane toad, right? kudzu the anything that got introduced introducing us, right like it, my brain, I'm very tired. But the What is it? They introduced it as an alternative to Beaver nutria. Oh, yeah. Oh, gosh. Yeah.

Aaron  45:56

The Everglades right.

Collin  45:58

He ended up in Washington, oddly. So like, just look across the globe, you'll see examples of this if something was introduced just for one particular purpose, and it's gone totally haywire. So it like blew apart? Yeah. Because those things are crazy, right. So that's why when I look at this elk reintroduction program going, well, they were here at some point, the ecosystem that we are introducing them to, while it is

46:26

modified,

Collin  46:28

it's still can support a healthy population. So again, we're not restoring it would be different if we were trying to restore the landscape so that we could then put elk on like that's a that's a totally different. Yes, what we are doing is we are we are conserving what's there on the landscape, protecting the landscape? To keep it healthy? Because we know it can support these things on it like that's a little bit different. Thinking about what's going on versus Oh, it's a moonscape. We've got to craft mountains and plant trees so that we can then put elk on it like that's good nothing. Is there any concern about the elk modifying the landscape to suit them better? Is that an issue that people are worried about? Because certain certain large animals, they have an effect on things, and they change it? Right. And again, it could be such that it's going back to a more quote,

47:27

natural state

Collin  47:30

that it would have looked like when the elk were there, and their absence has changed the environment in some way. And it will sort of revert perhaps in their presence. Is that a thing in Missouri woodland, or is that avoid only a special circumstance? Not that I know, I don't think there are any real concerns of them changing? Granted, we are still at extremely low population densities of them right now. So that any facts like that are going to take time. But then again, I think the thought would be if they're changing the landscape into such a way that they are able to persist in a more balanced manner for the population, then that's a good cycle for them to be in, I guess, the problem would come in is if you start if they start modifying it based off of their grazing habits based off their racial patterns based off of you know, what trees they're running against, in their, you know, destroying saplings of certain years or whatever, if that starts preventing other species, but again, the thought going, we're not this is not they're not new on the landscape. They've just been absent for a while. So they have been in proximity, and they've been in the ecosystem web of all of the current animals out on the landscape at one point, so this shouldn't be too much of a jolt. True. Sweet. Okay, so I said all of that, to ask you this question. Okay. Both of you.

49:08

Are you ready for this?

Collin  49:11

And I want your thoughts. Because it's, it's a little bit intense. Have you mentioned Jurassic Park and you we're not far off of what I was reading about this week and a little bit of last week. Have you heard about Pleistocene park? By any chance?

49:34

No, no,

Collin  49:36

no. Well, it will not disappear will not surprise you at where it is located. Yeah, that's right. It's in Russia. That's in Siberia. This dude he's like a biologist guy whenever he he is a Yes, he is. His goal here is to really He introduced megafauna to the, the Siberian Arctic, in order to make it

50:11

more

Collin  50:13

in order to like sort of modify that landscape and change how like refreeze permafrost in areas, because his theory is that the animal presence will actually increase the amount of permafrost and keep the Arctic frozen because of the animal behavior in the landscape. Right. So with things like reindeer and moose that were like DeGeneres to Russia, and he sort of, he has all this land randomly in the middle Siberia, not entirely sure how we got it, but don't ask. So he started that. And then he started to slowly bring in other large species like musk ox, and like weird Arctic horse things. And he got some bison in there. And they just roam around in this like, literally like Pleistocene esque, like tundra, like an ice age kind of thing. And what the thing that he's found so far, is that like, because they're out there, like tramping around and like, smashing down all the snow to eat it the grass and the lichen and stuff, that permafrost is actually refreezing at much higher levels in the winter, because there is no snow to insulate the ground. Because the snow axe is such a heavy install insulation. It's actually the permit even though it gets like stupid cold in Siberia, the permafrost is not refreezing at the historic depth that it should be. And you know, they're always they're worried about like the carbon trapped in the permafrost and all that stuff. And so he was like, Well, what if we just put animals back on it? Is that because it's like empty and nothing? Yeah. Is that because so thinking they're, the landscape that they were on was like, open prairies, and grassland. And over time with the loss of large megafauna. It's been slowly converted to more forested

52:17

areas.

Collin  52:18

Yes. And the trees trap a lot more heat. And there are big trees in the way. So he like goes around and knocks trees down. It'll area. Sure. And like, then the, once they're down, these big animals sort of keep them gone. Because they trample areas and they graze shoots and stuff.

52:40

Yeah. And then, like,

Collin  52:43

he's found that the permafrost in the areas where he's doing this is refreezing, like, way more than in other areas. And it's just really like, bizarre.

52:55

Like,

Collin  52:57

I was reading about it, I was like, mildly fascinated, like he's doing what? Wait, and this is another one's like, weird, long lasting experiments that could literally only happen in Russia, right? There's no place else in the world. That would be like, yeah, I'm gonna do this. And do it for like, 25 years. I have that space to do it basically. To Yeah, yeah. So that's, it's this rather fascinating, like, thing where he like, just, this is his thing he's doing it's like rewilding the tundra. To fight. Like, you know, this permafrost thaw with giant animals back in the in the Arctic. Yeah, it's very weird. But also kind of like, crazy and interesting at the same time, like, Well, again, that gets to the bag, guess that's the win part of my question from earlier. Right. When is it? Exactly, because then the whole, the whole point of that is going well? Can the existing climate like it? My things like that, where I go, okay. If you're saying that you have there's a global impact on what's happening in that area. Right, like, globally. Yeah. How much of an impact you feel treating it locally, is going to bounce around. And and do you see your local impact? Having sustained longevity for the next 30 years, given the global predictions, or it is not

54:54

true.

Collin  54:54

So you gotta start somewhere but proof of concept right on small scale, you don't have to start And if you're trying to protect because I mean, then people go, Well, why do you conserve any areas? If you're worried about global impact? Yeah. I mean, that's true. But but it is not the point with the explicit with the expressed an explicit intention of like, reversing the impacts. Yeah, no, I think it is. It is. Interesting. Because climate, the glowing, glowing terms right now, our climate resiliency in not just infrastructure, but in our conservation and management effort. So when we put in streambank stabilization project, climate resiliency is something that they talk about, like, Okay, well can handle the flood the day, but given the models and projections, can they handle the flood in years? Because when project goes in, you know, we want to stay there. So, it's a little interesting to think about that project and go, Well, this is kind of trying to almost reverse climate concerns, and make it more resilient. And not just yeah, buffer against the changes that are happening, or Yeah, it's kind of wild. It's just so like, out there that I was like, what what this is finally fascinating, must know what they got Aaron, what do you think about bringing giant animals to the Arctic?

Aaron  56:31

Whenever I think of stuff like that, I always think of like, people doing like the studies of trying to bring back like the mammoth or, or like, things like that. But that

Collin  56:45

that is also one of his stated goals. Yeah. Is he wants a mammoth or,

56:49

or,

Collin  56:50

quote, cold adapted elephant, right? Because it wouldn't be an actual mammoth. It wouldn't be like a real life mammoth. It would be like, some sort of weird genetically modified elephant to fill the niche that giant megafauna nice in his Park like that's Yeah, okay. That's, that's one of his stated goals.

Aaron  57:10

That's, that's my first thought when I, whenever I was thinking, like, do this. Um, I mean, is he is kind of one of those situations where it well, if I, if I reintroduce this into this area, you know, how is that, you know, you know, that's going to affect the environment in some way. But what if that gets, you know, unable to manage or something happens or what if they escaped and start repopulating in another area? Or like, Oh, good. Oh, no. It's not like that, that no concept of it all if it gets out, then this happens or like, Oh, you know, it ruin science for everybody. If you know if this fails, or no, you that woolly mammoth that you can keep track of his you know, escaping in creating a whole new subspecies because it's, you know, adapting and breeding in this way a model Beauvoir. So it's very, now, it's definitely bizarre and wild that he's taken amongst them, you know, upon himself, I'm gonna do this and just kind of go with it. So I I'm intrigued, because you don't really see things like this happen too often or any, at all. At all. Yeah. So So to me, it's, it's unique, I definitely kind of want to see like, you know, read more about it to kind of see the actual, like, impact that it's having on like, one particular area. And if it's possible to even bring back no other kind of things. It's like, Okay, well, now, what is that going to do? Not just for this, but for, you know, other areas like, well, this is gonna work in Russia, although What if we're going to try this in, you know, this country or in this area, so I'm interested to see the actual outcome. But

Collin  59:11

on top of that, you know, with the comparisons to the elf reintroduction, the thought being well, we also now have black bear and Puma both, which will prey on elk to some extent, reintroducing these large populations in these areas, how, again, self sustaining, self correcting, are they going to be are you going to have to come in and actively be hunting these right to control the populations? Do you know how much the landscape can or should support for them and what is the appropriate population density to get the desired effects? I think there's just a lot tied into that. I won't be there, not there. So let's do this through B, and he has I've read something where he was talking about like they if they did that, then then like if the, because right now this populations of all those herds are still quite small, I think so like, but he has stated, I think in an interview that like his his next goal, after they reach a certain point would be to try to introduce some sort of predators into the mix, because they do need a balance, otherwise, they will just sort of go insane and like, yeah, like 70 billion bison, you're like, Oh, that's not what I don't know what predators they would be in that area right now.

Aaron  1:00:56

Like,

1:00:59

I mean, knowing him, he'd be like, I'm gonna have to make a smile on clearly. That's why

Collin  1:01:05

if you're bringing back cold adapted elephants, his next line is, well, if we could have some cold adapted lions. I mean, obviously, right. That's what you want. Right? That's I think of the driving tours. Collin. I'm sorry. I couldn't help that. But yeah, I just I was really glad that the week and I was like that is fast, fascinating. And yet, like, the weirdest? No, again, that's one of those like, categories, like only in Russia. Yeah. Is that somebody's idea of like,

1:01:45

Whoa, what

Collin  1:01:46

about if I just put a whole bunch of bison in this field? And they'll be preserved like, it makes sense. But

Aaron  1:01:56

also you're like, What? What? How did you what why?

Collin  1:02:02

That's one of my, one of my new fascinations at the moment is just reading about that guy. And it's, like, this weird idea about the Pleistocene Park. And then of course, like Aaron was talking about having seen Jurassic Park, I do have like trepidations about that, like, Oh, no, you guys get a mammoth. But what happens? Oh, no. or his Arctic lion, right? Oh, no. What did that escape? Like? I know, it's very large up there. And it will have to go quite far to find anything else to get into. But like, second sci fi inspiration for the day. Here we go. That's just what

1:02:59

they find. So

Collin  1:03:03

all these can be separate stories. They don't have to be the same. No, no, we're bringing them together. We're tying them together. The cold adapted lion travels to Finland, and Finland to attack the last

1:03:15

design.

Collin  1:03:18

What if the glow in the dark radioactive cat is called adapted lion? Yes, exactly. Exactly. They just happened to bring them in from that day. I think it's great. Fantastic. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I really did want to share my just with you because I thought that was just a craziest idea ever of like, Okay, well, I could do that. So I wanted to I wanted to, I wanted to somebody else to hear this and see their thoughts on it. not crazy. And thinking that has been around for a while, but I've just heard about this. So

1:04:09

do what it's like.

1:04:11

This is crazy, right?

Collin  1:04:14

Yeah, no. Yeah, it is. Because it's just crazy.

1:04:18

No, totally. It's obvious. But again, I got to do something.

Collin  1:04:23

Yeah, true. So why not mammoth? Do you have any plans for the weekend, Erin?

1:04:41

Well,

Collin  1:04:41

I'm gonna be on call all weekend.

Aaron  1:04:43

No, that's next week. We're gonna go spend time with Shelley's mom for Mother's Day. We're going to go go to Tulsa there some festival or something down there. Then we're going to do some other things. Saturday or Sunday. To which those are I do not know, but we will be apprised Sunday. Yeah, we'll do that. And so that's kind of all over. I guess. You got to get through the week. First, through. I'm almost done. But yeah, that's kind of about it. We're gonna go down to the festival. Music Festival the things. I'm just gonna see what happens.

Collin  1:05:30

That means festival food, though. So this could be exciting.

Aaron  1:05:35

I don't know, like what this company may may may festival, but I don't know, like, what creative name is or what it does. It's like downtown Tulsa area. So.

Collin  1:05:50

Okay, you need to let us know if you do the maypole thing. Okay, we know about that. We did. Over under

Aaron  1:06:00

lC lC with the Gad.

Collin  1:06:02

Yes, over under, right. You can do that in your fourth grade program to Oh, he did. Yes.

1:06:08

No, is that we did? We did?

Collin  1:06:14

Yes, I remember that. I remember my friend's ribbon broke, and he just sort of like wandered around the thing with holding his right is very depressing looking maple.

1:06:26

bindings, emotions.

1:06:28

Yeah, it's like

Collin  1:06:30

with this like, weird, limp ribbon in his hand. Like I should probably ask Aaron for advice because I have to go to Branson on Saturday.

1:06:47

Because it is finally

Collin  1:06:51

allegedly now if we get to go racing on Saturday, it's new catch time. catches. It's, it's not going well. It's, it's on its last leg. Really. It's like it's it makes all kinds of exciting. Breaking noises. Like my side. Like Susan side. You can't recline it anymore. So like, once it's opened, you just have to sort of leave it there and work your life around the fact that the little foot things up there because if you put it down, it will never come up again. Aaron orner sorry. Go ahead. Yeah, my mind the springs I need to have collapsed so thoroughly that you just sort of like stink into the couch and like can't get out. So it's it's terribly uncomfortable. Giving you a big hug.

1:07:43

Yeah. Lovely.

Collin  1:07:46

Aaron, as I continue to call him at least 14 couches at one point in time, what I believe? What do you look for in a good couch? Yeah,

1:07:53

I believe it was a coastline of couches, if I remember correctly.

Aaron  1:07:59

I never bought any of my couches. So I have no Actually, I've never

Collin  1:08:04

let you own so many I need to know like what makes a good cat.

Aaron  1:08:08

It kind of at one point it kind of looked like that. I was like a foster shelter for now. So title. the only the only advice I can give is make sure your fist through the door. Make sure you don't leave on the second floor. Do not run into as the truck is the item move that sucker without one. So that no one so just be my advice.

Collin  1:08:35

neuter them so that they don't really know. They don't multiply.

Aaron  1:08:38

Right, exactly. So that's, I mean, that's kind of what I say I never bought mine.

Collin  1:08:48

So the truck isn't going to be a problem because Susan's sister owns a furniture store. So they come to us. But like

Aaron  1:08:59

as long as it's through the door, and you should be doing pretty fine. Yeah, mine were we were already looking at new characters. I know for this one because the character we got or that erupted from my friend and his wife of it is, you know, it's older. Now and it's time to put it out to pasture pretty soon.

Collin  1:09:26

So we bought this couch when we got married.

Aaron  1:09:29

Yeah. You need about the cow.

Collin  1:09:36

It's a long catch live right there.

Aaron  1:09:41

Put it put it out on the put it out on the corner and put put usciences rehat on it and we'll take it off your hands. So you don't have to have to move it or donate it. Wherever.

Collin  1:09:54

It's not donatable the one that we currently have. It's almost our city Does that like citywide cleanup day? Oh, yeah. To every section of the city, like has a couple days where if you set something out in your house, the city will come in and pick it up and take it away. Forever. And that's our day is coming up very soon. Yeah, our couches going outside. So they have the they have the city why they do it in two parts. They have the citywide garage sale thing, where it's like, they basically just say, Hey, if you're gonna have a garage sale, do it this weekend.

1:10:31

And people come from like, all around.

Collin  1:10:35

And like the whole city is having a garage sale. It's kind of weird. I don't ever really like I already have too many things. So I don't need to go buy other people's things. But it's, it's a deal. People do that. And then yeah, conveniently, after that. They have citywide cleanup day. Get rid of everything. I see. They just have it sectioned off to where they just you come by to take it. So very odd. But yeah, that's coming soon. And that's where I catch is gonna have to go because it's not sellable. In its current state. It's due dilapidated.

1:11:17

Yeah,

1:11:18

so we'll do that. And then we're gonna go Saturday, I guess and attempt to procure a new couch. So it's gonna be very interesting times.

Collin  1:11:32

Don't do well shopping, especially for like large furniture pieces.

1:11:39

It'll be weird.

Collin  1:11:41

Best of luck. Godspeed. My back says we need to real bad though. So like, right. Like, it's gonna be a good thing, but it's not gonna be a fun thing. Yeah, because I don't want to I don't really want to drive all the way to break them to do this. Because it is the tears sisters store

1:12:07

like, Yeah, it's

Collin  1:12:13

pretty nice. So yeah, but yes, that's what we're doing. It's gonna be a couch adventure. Which is exactly what I want to do the day after Field Day.

1:12:33

Block

Collin  1:12:36

condominio. anything exciting coming up? No, no, we can look forward to talking about next week. Thankfully, not thankfully. I don't know. I don't have anything coming up. Really? Oh, oh, a big news announced today by the governor. Is all state employees must be back to work at their original offices. Starting may 17. No acceptance.

1:13:11

Oh,

Collin  1:13:12

no, no. And goodbye kitchen counter by kitchen counter Goodbye, my office Goodbye, every place that I work.

1:13:22

And apparently, he didn't talk with any of the state agencies about.

Aaron  1:13:30

Oh,

Collin  1:13:30

he just sounds exactly like something he would do just announced it. It was basically like, yeah. And for those of you not looking at your calendars, or knowing when we're recording, it's in a week. Basically, today, is that fair? As the fifth of may if you did not catch Collins terrible joke at the beginning. Yeah. So what There are tons of people who are really angry, because a year ago, every single state agency invested literally millions of dollars in creating their it taking their their entire workforce remote. And it was they basically had all these dashboards of watching who was able to work from home and what kind of work they were doing and productivity, and they were able to get it back up to about, quote unquote, 90% of what it was in the office with everybody working with most of the state working remote. And so now all that infrastructure that they had built up, just get, you know, taught side effectively. Because that's the weird part, like, a lot of them don't, you don't need to be in the office. Like it's not going to benefit them. They're not gonna work better. No. Probably gonna buy so like all of a sudden, decreeing magically like, again, the government in Missouri, currently not paying any attention to what people actually want. It's a farce, if you like, Oh, we voted on this and the governor and the senators go, we're not doing that.

Aaron  1:15:07

Like, what? Wait, but that's not how

Collin  1:15:11

this listen. Let me talk to you civics one on one. Yeah, that's not your job. That's good. So I'm just thinking of, like, all of the parents who had a summer planned to be home with their kids. And now, yeah, within a week, that's very soon to have to find something for their kids to do, or, you know, find other arrangements for their kids to be taken care of. So I thought that was really crazy. And basically, you know, effective when especially whenever he is flat out prevented, and that no hybrid plan allowed? And but if he just said that, does that actually mean anything? Is there anything behind it? Or is it just him being an idiot? We're not fans of the governor of Missouri here on this podcast, at least I'm not I don't know, what, what how this was presented. But our our agency basically was like, yeah, we aren't allowed to make a hybrid situation. Because my thinking was, I was going to be working with my supervisor to turn my position into a, I'll work from the office, you know, three days a week and work from home? Or something like that, right? something real, yeah. But they that's reasonable. They're just flat out? Because it's like, obviously, we can do it, are all doing it for the past year.

1:16:41

There's no yeah. Though, that's

Collin  1:16:46

the weird part, that there is no reason. And I think there's gonna be a lot of pushback from other places, too, like companies in general, because like, a lot of their employees would be like, I don't have to go. I can do literally everything here. Like, and people have been just as productive, probably more productive. In some instances. It's like hanging out and doing their work. And it's like, let's say in some situations, I imagine it's much less stressful, right? Every single happier environment. Every single study that you see on this shows people who work from home, or have a report having a higher quality of of life, having less stress, and are actually either just as productive or a little bit more. And the thing is that is to have it. You know, I think what I feel frustrated by is the fact that even even my supervisor was talking about how kind of in the middle of all this, she was like, I'm not working eight hour days anymore. And I'm still getting the same amount of work done. And I'm like, Yeah, because the amount of time wasted at the office was a large lot, right? You can't nobody, nobody, I don't care how dedicated worker you are, can sit down at 7am. And literally work like focus work on writing on reading on running programs on data analysis on all that, and then clock out at four and go home. That's not that's not how people work. Nobody does. Oh, yeah, no, no. And that that mentality about how you have to do that is a weird holdover from like, the Industrial Revolution, when you were going to a factory, right, and working those shifts, right. And the eight hour workday was like the concession of like, that would union going, we cannot work 15 hours. What the heck are you doing? You have? Right, like, it's so this like, magical thing that like where people seem to think that office jobs are like, you just sit at a desk and work nonstop for eight hours. It's like, it's the most unreasonable thing I've ever heard. Well, are you

1:19:12

listening to yourself? I don't know.

Collin  1:19:15

I mean, the number of times where I would take my lunch hour and actually just like nap, and then wake up feel like amazingly refreshed and do more work in the afternoon. And not necessarily, you know, sure. I didn't clock out at three, which is when I was supposed to, I'd work until four, but I, but that's because I didn't work an hour because for right, but I'm still putting in that quote unquote, eight hours. They were just broken up throughout the day. And I got one that's the other thing that's really nice about working from home is you don't have to do them all continuously. Yeah, right. You work for a few hours. You can go out you can run some errands, you can take care of your business. You can go to the bank, you can go to the utilities office, it's never open. You can you can You can do all these things, you can come back in a couple hours and you can work

1:20:06

some more. You can, you know,

Collin  1:20:08

maybe you work two or three more hours, you, you take another break, you eat some supper he do thing, after supper, you work for another hour and a half, and you're done. Right, you can break it up in such a way that it's, it's a lot less stressful, you can be more productive, because you have time to reset your your brain a little bit. Instead of like slogging through a straight line of hours to do a thing, and I just feel like, you know, it's not necessary to do that at like, especially in a lot of jobs that are like, Oh, I'm running data analysis. You know, you don't need to sit down and run data analysis for eight straight hours. You're not getting it doesn't matter. And, you know, I'm not, I'm not obviously complaining here, but I'm just more more lamenting about the fact of like, there's such an opportunity to genuinely make positive influence on the workforce, and leave options open for people who it would work, because it doesn't work for everybody, right? There are people who work from home, well, no, but it works for some people, but but to completely take that off the table, and, and take away that people who had probably the best quality of life they've ever had in their working career Finally, and just say, Nope, can't have that anymore. It's like, it's very short sighted really short sighted really short. Because honestly, I feel like if you could take some of these positions, and turn them into hybrid, you'd have a much, much higher retention rate for employees that you could have, that you also that becomes a Marga ploy to bring people on and go, yeah, you get to be a staff biologist for the Department of Conservation, and

Aaron  1:22:01

work from home part time. Well, yeah,

Collin  1:22:04

it's great. And you're, you know, yeah, it kind of decreases, like the burnout thing of all you have to do that you can, you can probably downsize your office expenditures, right,

Aaron  1:22:15

you don't need it. So things, that's what the state of Oklahoma is, is pretty much doing. Because, you know, especially with DHS, we have such high turnover rate, a lot of people will look at the first phases of COVID. And they're like, what can we do number one, save money? And then someone's like, let's sell offices and like, Okay, hold on to that. And then they're like, Okay, well, you know, talking with people, you know, being able to work from home, being able to, you know, you know, only sometimes, you know, only working four days a week or doing this. And so they took a lot of what they learned from the initial art of doing everything, teleworking, doing everything online. And they realize, okay, well that we can actually use that to bring people in more than it is. And I need to look at the numbers somewhere, but someone was telling me again, we actually gained four people, and we're actually able to get more positions to bring more people on, because it's more appealing, like, Oh, I can work for the state of Oklahoma, and work from home and only work maybe either five or four days a week. And yeah, they're shutting down some offices. But they're able to kind of cut those costs and, you know, worried about, you know, financially marketing the state, and bringing more people on. Yeah, and by Yeah, by doing that,

Collin  1:23:46

yeah, it's, it's a, it's interesting thought that you can downsize offices, but increase staff, right, that's like, the best thing to do with your money, right? Like, you don't need this building, or as many of them, and I can hire more people to do the job, that way, we have more coverage, and you can have better time. And that's a great idea. So like, kind of goes back a little bit to the, we're talking about with the ecology thing, like in some instances, like when do you want to go back to like, maybe not that far, right, in this case, right? Like this. This is an instance where maybe it's not a good idea to go back and you know, that that mindset of like, oh, everything was better back in the day, right? You know, Governor's like 1000 year old dude apparently. So like, he's got that mindset of old man who's like everything was better

1:24:45

in my day, right the

Collin  1:24:47

bat so he wants it to be you know, the we want it like it was like, Well,

Aaron  1:24:52

yeah. Well, you see,

Collin  1:24:56

something's actually better this way. So like, I don't know Do you want to do that by?

1:25:02

Five? Yeah, so it'll be,

Collin  1:25:08

it'll be an interesting transition back, obviously. And we'll see how it goes, I'm still kind of holding, holding out hope that the department will lay out some try and carve out a niche in rules of their own. Yeah. But because, I mean, if he just says,

1:25:30

do this, like,

Collin  1:25:33

I mean, as far as I'm aware, that that in and of itself doesn't actually mean anything.

1:25:41

Right, I think you have to have

Collin  1:25:43

something to back it up, right? You have to like, have a decree or something. Like you can't just be like, do this.

1:25:52

And they do. I don't,

Collin  1:25:53

I don't know how that works. I try to find the exact language. But the state of Missouri is also busy passing just like the most useless junk, instead of like focusing on things that are

1:26:07

helpful.

Collin  1:26:08

They're all just like, man, we should abolish daylight savings time, which is an indication of like, how they're all like, 70 year old men, like nobody cares. Stop, it doesn't matter. Also, how idiotic are you? Your two largest cities in the entire state directly border the next state and you want to abolish daylight savings time and make those people's jobs who like traverse the state boundary 75 times a day. You want to make their life like the worst thing ever, man. Thanks for coming.

1:27:00

Yeah,

Collin  1:27:01

I didn't hear that. So that's interesting. Yeah. Not surprising. Debbie, but one day, we'll get you to tell us how you really feel and I think Yeah, no worries, guys. Maybe one day I'll open it up.

1:27:16

Yeah, yeah, don't really stop holding it in.

Collin  1:27:20

Yeah, I'll stop holding it in.

1:27:21

Really?

Collin  1:27:21

Speak your

1:27:22

mind. Yes.

1:27:26

Maybe someday.

1:27:28

jumped off that political deep end so

Collin  1:27:33

I was trying to be nice. I'm not ridiculous.

1:27:40

And on that

Collin  1:27:44

all right. Are you guys